[SM] CAP Metagame Discussion

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snake

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http://pastebin.com/DqSgb1PE

Here's a really fun argho team I made.

Argho is really nice right now for shuffling with hazards and walling a bunch of threats like gene, zygarde and pheromosa. It's also a pretty neat molly lure :P.
What's an Arghonaut?

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Colossoil seems to get buffs every generation, and despite all the Gen 7 threats, Colossoil can still be a relevant threat.

Colossoil @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe (If there's a better EV spread, I'd like to see)
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch / Pursuit
- U-turn

Flame Orb is now such a good item on Guts users, as it grants Colossoil the power boost of a band, the freedom of choosing move like Life Orb while only taking 6% recoil, and status absorption (which allows Colossoil to switch into Amoonguss using Spore). Earthquake and Knock Off are standard STAB moves and hit extremely hard. Sucker Punch, while less powerful than last gen, is still a good priority move. However, Pursuit is a good option to trap all the specially defensive Mollux everywhere. U-turn is a mandatory move now, as Colossoil gained many checks such as the Tapu Bulu, Celesteela, and Buzzwole as well as retaining old checks such as Tomohawk, Rotom-W, Mega Scizor, and Landorus-T. Because Colossoil switches out with U-turn before burn damage takes effect, Colossoil takes no recoil damage on that turn. This set goes well with Pokemon that appreciate Mega Scizor, Tomohawk, Landorus-T, Rotom-W, Tapu Bulu, Celesteela, and Buzzwole being lured in.
 
If Colossoil only got buffed even further, what happened to Tomohawk? Does it prefer to run Intimidate over Prankster now? It would artificially increase its decent physical bulk.
 

snake

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If Colossoil only got buffed even further, what happened to Tomohawk? Does it prefer to run Intimidate over Prankster now? It would artificially increase its decent physical bulk.
Standard Prankster defensive with Haze is still really good right now, as everything loves to boost nowadays. Also walls Tapu Bulu, which is probably why it's largely absent in the CAP Metagame.
 
Through some experience, I had gotten along with 2 more pokemon which have proven to be pretty good when I battled people with them. One is Araquanid.

Araquanid @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Waterfall
- Poison Jab


This pokemon has been really useful as a Banded user because of Water Bubble (which comes to great use as it can't be burned, its Damage power with Water Moves are 2x, and that Fire Power doesn't do shit on it). It has proven to counter some threats I have seen in the game such as Heatran, Pyroak, etc). I thank Ria for helping me to run a pretty decent set on Araquanid.


The second pokemon that I have tried out is Jirachi. I have seen this pokemon in some teams in the ladder, and it is proven to be a really good Special Wall against a variety of threats such as Kerfluffle, Crucibelle, Clefable, and any other pokemon that is weak to the STAB moves of Jirachi. It also is great as a Wish setter, so then you can heal up any pokemon in a serious condition. Toxic comes in handy to stall the living fuck out of pokemon that you consider as a threat, such as Pyroak for an instance, as you can use Protect, and Wish just to regain momentum.

Wishie (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
 

emma

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revenankh is good again bless up

Revenankh @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 120 Def / 48 SpD
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Moonlight


rev walls the hell out of pheromosa as it resists bug/immune to fighting and takes nothing from common coverage (ice/poison). the evs allow rev to always give genesect the spa boost so it can only 4hko with +1 ice beam / +0 iron head. 88atk 2hkos genesect at +1 from bulk up which is pretty cool.

a different ev spread could work, one that gives gene the atk boost but avoids the 2hko, but this still loses to gene so idk. 252hp/252spd+ is probably still cool as bulk up negates the lack of def investment.

cb rev looks :fire: as well and well as some other sets which ill hopefully try out
 
I just searched the CAP subsite to look at some of the first eleven CAPs' movepools, and it seems that Syclant already had access to Leech Life. Even though the freezing locust usually prefers special attacks due to Tail Glow's additional boost, could a set of Swords Dance, Leech Life, Ice Shard, and Earthquake become viable again? Ice and Ground have amazing coverage together, especially with access to a semi-reliable recovery attack.
 
I'll post a team since I'm pretty tired of using it and I've shared it with a few people already. If you've been laddering in the past week or two, you've probably seen this team or a close variant of it.


verrucosity (Scolipede) (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Speed Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Spikes

Ria (Manaphy) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Hydration
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Surf
- Rain Dance
- Psychic

cbrevan (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Zen Headbutt
- Hyperspace Fury
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch

snake_rattler (Kartana) @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Psycho Cut

bugmaniacbob (Aurumoth) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Blizzard

Master Mewking (Greninja) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Gunk Shot

Cool thing about this team is that mons 2 through 6 all have the potential to sweep, though in most cases the match ends with a Manaphy or Kartana sweep. Waterium Z Manaphy basically smashes through its own checks, and Kartana is extremely dangerous with Beast Boost and some Speed passed to it.

Obvious downside is that this team is pretty matchup based, but it still works well as ladder is fairly unprepared to deal with it at the moment. Haze Tomohawk is annoying of course, but it's far from an insta-loss, just spam special/SE hits with your breakers until it goes down.

oh, here's a couple of replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7cap-490410064 vs. reachzero
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7cap-490663853 scolipede gets past taunt tomohawk with the power of love
 
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Call me the ABR of CAP. Go nuts fam.
Crabominable @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Ice Hammer
- Earthquake
- Power-Up Punch

Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flash Cannon

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Recover
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Fidgit @ Focus Sash
Ability: Persistent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Trick Room
- Earth Power

Slowbro @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Surf
- Psychic
- Fire Blast


Zygarde-10% @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Sleep Talk

Genesect @ Choice Specs
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 40 SpA / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- U-turn

Kerfluffle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Focus Blast
- Moonblast
- Parting Shot
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Volt Switch

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog


Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 108 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Earthquake

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Roost

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 20 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Memento
- Aerial Ace

Tomohawk @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Earth Power
- Haze

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell

Toxapex (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes


Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot

Buzzswole (Buzzwole) @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Leech Life
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake

Pyroak @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic

Colossoil @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Earthquake

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw


Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb

Colossoil @ Life Orb
Ability: Rebound
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

Volcarona @ Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Morning Sun

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin


Raichu-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Sucker Punch

Volkraken @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
- Scald

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Ice Fang
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake

Tapu Koko @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam

Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Volt Switch


Necturna @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Forewarn
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Sticky Web
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Horn Leech

Mimikyu @ Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance

Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Psycho Cut
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt


Kyurem-Black @ Icium Z
Ability: Teravolt
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Ice Beam
- Freeze Shock
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Healing Wish
- U-turn

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 28 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Kartana @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Psycho Cut
- Sacred Sword
- Defog

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm
- Bullet Punch

Syclant @ Life Orb
Ability: Mountaineer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Spikes


Tapu Lele @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast

Alakazam-Mega (M) @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Celesteela @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Air Slash
- Fire Blast
- Autotomize

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Colossoil @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rebound
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
 
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EPICflygon ( '-')>

Banned deucer.


Trick room has always been one of my fav ways of playing, it may not be the best competitively but tbh you can beat players much better than you by running non-meta mons and not playing optimally, so trick room can work :) http://pastebin.com/41YnTGLM this is the team i have been playing with for a few days some of the sets may be weird and i can always improve it. (I kinda need help improving it so just pm me on ps my user on ps is the one here). this team stops a lot of teams easily but can be stopped easily to sadly i can't see any mons that check it but they are out there so can you help me with that? But i have seen A LOT of success with the team, try to build your own trick room team just use this to point you in the right direction.
Edit: well now it looks like this http://pastebin.com/a7Eenke0 but i am thinking about changeing buzzwole to choice band
Edit 2: welp rip genesect
 
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snake

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CAP Co-Leader


Trick room has always been one of my fav ways of playing, it may not be the best competitively but tbh you can beat players much better than you by running non-meta mons and not playing optimally, so trick room can work :) http://pastebin.com/41YnTGLM this is the team i have been playing with for a few days some of the sets may be weird and i can always improve it. (I kinda need help improving it so just pm me on ps my user on ps is the one here). this team stops a lot of teams easily but can be stopped easily to sadly i can't see any mons that check it but they are out there so can you help me with that? But i have seen A LOT of success with the team, try to build your own trick room team just use this to point you in the right direction.
Hi! I'd like to make a couple of suggestions for your team. First, Fidgit can run max speed to get a slower U-turn after it sets up Trick Room since investing in its Special Attack isn't the best. Next, Buzzwole can check Ground-types really well if you run Ice Punch. I'd run it over Poison Jab. Since Buzzwole can now reliably check Ground-types, I'd replace Bronzong with Magearna, who has a better offensive presence and a pivoting move in Volt Switch. I don't want to change your team too much, so I won't touch Primarina or Cyclohm (though I think there are better picks out there for sure). However, Cyclohm can run another attack like Ice Beam over Trick Room, as three Trick Room setters is a bit excessive. Finally, I think you could pick a better cleaner than Mega Absol, so it might be worth considering Dragon Dance Mega Gyarados instead.
 
Time to revive the thread!

From my perspective of the CAP Metagame, besides the fact there are CAP Revisions, there has been some differences in the ladder lately. I've seen that a low amount of people run Stall Teams due to the unban on Hoopa-U. Another thing is that as some Megas are unreleased (not some, but a lot), Rain & Sun Teams may take time until they start getting decently popular. An interesting Rain core I've seen in the meta is between Pelipper and Kingdra, though I'm going to research as to why Pelipper is used over Politoed. Anywho, I've been seeing that TR teams may start to grow common as people have access to mons that can be able to act as a late-game sweeper, such as Alolawak and Hoopa-U (or it may stick with snake when he tortures me in ladder ;-;). I'd want to see if people can either improve the quality and usage of teams that aren't used much (Stall, Rain, and Sun) adjusting with the current meta, and if people can be able to form a new form of play-style with the resources that they have prior to Gen VII.
 

snake

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CAP Co-Leader
Time to revive the thread!

From my perspective of the CAP Metagame, besides the fact there are CAP Revisions, there has been some differences in the ladder lately. I've seen that a low amount of people run Stall Teams due to the unban on Hoopa-U. Another thing is that as some Megas are unreleased (not some, but a lot), Rain & Sun Teams may take time until they start getting decently popular. An interesting Rain core I've seen in the meta is between Pelipper and Kingdra, though I'm going to research as to why Pelipper is used over Politoed. Anywho, I've been seeing that TR teams may start to grow common as people have access to mons that can be able to act as a late-game sweeper, such as Alolawak and Hoopa-U (or it may stick with snake when he tortures me in ladder ;-;). I'd want to see if people can either improve the quality and usage of teams that aren't used much (Stall, Rain, and Sun) adjusting with the current meta, and if people can be able to form a new form of play-style with the resources that they have prior to Gen VII.
Pelipper is more commonly used over Politoed due to access to reliable recovery in Roost, a slow pivoting move in U-turn, access to Defog and a secondary STAB move, an its Flying-type, which can be used to check big threats like Pheromosa. While Politoed boasts superior raw defenses, a neutrality to Stealth Rock, and access to Hypnosis, it's hard to justify using it over Pelipper, which boasts greater utility overall.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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I don't think it's hard to justify the use of Politoed at all; it's rather easy to justify using something that is bulkier and that lacks a 4x Electric weakness or an SR weakness. Yeah Pelipper has some major advantages in Roost and U-turn (Defog is good too but frankly I think there are far better hazard removers out there and you can only have so much role compression on Pelipper before it starts having to make sacrifices; I personally would rather run Hurricane, Scald/Hydro, Roost, U-turn since Flying STAB is great) and I'm not in anyway arguing that Pelipper is worse than Politoed, but I firmly believe that Politoed is still very much viable in the CAP metagame. I also think that Politoed has better synergy with Tornadus-T and Tomohawk, but I'm sure Pelipper has better synergy with other rainmons so I don't want to get into that argument too far.
 

snake

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Well Defog is secondary to Hurricane anyways; the point is that the option is there. I think the main selling point for Pelipper is being less of a momentum sink with U-turn and not having to rely on Rest for recovery. I went a little too far last night about the "hard to justify using Politoed" (tired lol), and while Politoed still has the niche of a rain setter, I think Pelipper pulls it off just a little bit better.
 
So the current big debate going on right now with the OU council is stall, especially builds with Dugtrio to trap a sheer number of wallbreakers. Most of the issues the council pointed out there come from the belief that it restrains teambuilding in OU, and the council is planning to take action.

I think this is a good opportunity to look deeper into stall in the CAP metagame, and see if it's just as strong here.
 
LO Taunt Tomohawk is a large reason duggy stall isn't nearly as prevalent here compared to OU. Simply put, it's a really good breaker that can't be trapped by virtue of its typing. For comparison, take CM Tapu Lele for example. It's not an easy mon to switch into, and it would love to run Mind Plate or a Z Crystal to boost its offensive presence, but if it's not running Shed Shell, stall builds that have Dugtrio can still effectively limit its impact on the game. Shed Shell is obviously a wasted item slot in matchups against non-Dugtrio teams. Tomohawk has no such problem, meaning it's free to run Life Orb, and it can stay relevant for virtually the entire match with Roost.

Aurumoth (Illusion sets in general) is another reason stall struggles a bit more. Even if you have a mon like Unaware Clefable that can deal with most sets, you aren't always going to know exactly when to send it in, assuming moth is played well. "gee, that colossoil just used quiver dance! what do?" An error in prediction can be quite costly, and various Pokemon like Toxapex/Mollux/Tomohawk can end up going down in the process. Z Crystal moth sets, notably Psychium Z and Firium Z, have made it an even more dangerous mon for stall to deal with, as its surprise factor isn't lost after a single round of LO recoil (not to downplay LO moth's effectiveness; it's definitely still a strong mon). The kicker is that Dugtrio isn't really a great answer to Aurumoth. Aurumoth can technically be trapped since it's grounded, but it resists EQ and only takes like 50-60% from Stone Edge (and this is just 0/0 moth), which isn't always used on Dugtrio to begin with.

Basically, duggy stall in CAP struggles with two very good mons running good sets. This isn't to say it can't be effective, but like most stall builds, it tends to lead to incredibly matchup-based battles.
 

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
Hi, I came to ask if anyone has used Electricium-Z Naviathan? I'm just theorymonning this set but I kind of think that it could have potential as unlike the other Salamence or Gyarados is has a better time smashing through bulky Water-types such as Tapu-Fini, Slowbro, and Manaphy while having a Z-move that hits Rotom-W. I know it is still going to struggle versus Pokemon such as Venusaur and Ferrothorn but I'd thought I would ask if the set has been explored at all since I rarely have chances to get on PS nowadays.
 

Drapionswing

Eating it up, YUMMY!
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
So seeing as a pheromosa is being suspected I thought it'd be interesting to see peoples thoughts on how Pheromosa does in CAP.

Personally I think pheromosa is still extremely good here and the fact that it preforms nearly as consistently here as OU is a testament to it's consistency. Being the fastest and most unpredictable pokemon in the meta is definitely a very strong point for Pheromosa, as this gives it the upper hand vs the abundance of Offensive teams that inhabit the meta. This combined with Pheromosa's amazing wallbreaking power through a plefera of sets (Band, Lo, QD, Specs, Z fight, Scarf) and utility in Rapid Spin definitely warranted a suspect, and in my opinion a ban.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I am quite confident that the Ninja Pokemon wont be staying in OU and CAP for much longer
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
Time will tell if ninja goes. It's pretty great at breaking balance and can be a headache to offensive teams too. Also, protean mixed sets only really need 2-3 slots to combat stall, leaving a fourth moveslot open to taunt/spikes. The deceptively good stat spread, unique move pool, and protean will most likely be the determining factors on if it gets banned again. Not to say that battle bond ninja is bad, just not nearly as versatile as protean.
 
If Greninja leaves OU and CAP, will the same thing happen to Greninja-Ash? It's technically a glorified form change, but it can't access Protean due to Battle Bond being a special Ability, rather than an alternate Hidden Ability. Also, it's a lot less versatile due to lacking omni-STAB.
 
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