Featured Playstyle #1: Stall

[skylight]

ras loved the idea so approved~

Introduction
In NU there are a variety of different playstyles you can use, however are all playstyles actually effective in this metagame? This project aims to explore the different playstyles you can use in NU, and discover how to make them most effective. Much like Research Group, you'll be discovering whether this playstyle is really cut out for the tier and what you actually need to succeed at it.

What do we discuss here?
The kind of stuff you can discuss here includes:

• why this playstyle in particular is or isn't effective in this metagame
• what Pokemon are most successful at this playstyle (is there a pokemon you haven't considered before such as braviary for example viable in stall? why? how?)
• teams you've been using that fit into this playstyle category
• speak about your ladder or general experiences with this playstyle
• if this playstyle was simply better in a past metagame
• or post about mons you intend to try out with this playstyle
• be creative!

What is stall (18 - 25 August)
Stall is a team archetype build around beating the opponent through means of passive damage, be it from hazards, status or by weakening teams little by little to let a lone sweeper clean, while trying to cover the top threats in the tier as effectively as possible. - Molk/Brammi

Hall of Fame?
There will be one on NU's hub in the future along with Research Group, same applies as there:

• Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 2000 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1850 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1700 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team. Note: this is for Glicko2. You must also have a deviation of 85.
• Users will be expected to post their experiences with the Pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encountered while trying to make the said Pokemon work.
• If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.
• In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

Also feel free to use anything from Research Group for this particular week if it fits into this playstyle! You can discuss the individual Pokemon's performance there, but here you discuss the team as a whole, and the playstyle, too. Have fun!

 

[Brammi]

A few things that I've found to be quite effective in my own experiences with stall in NU.

1. Toxic Spikes are not that great against other defensive teams. You will need a defensive wallbreaker instead of relying on status because there are too many great poison types in the tier.
2. As far as cleaners go, you want something that boosts and can deal with fast threats and panic button yourself out. If your wincon is offensive, stuff like Pinsir and Samurott make good last pokes, or if you want something more defensive, Bronzor, Klang, or Dragonair work well.
3. Always carry a ghost. I know that it's hard to spin in NU, but if you are relying on hazards, you want them to stay up, because your hazard setters will need to stay fresh for the things they are countering. On this note, Frillish is actually a pretty damn good mon for beating shit like Mix Sammy and Two attacks Scolipede.
4. You need to have plenty of insurance against boosters. Missy and Mandi are both good taunters, Munchy, Mandi, Basti all make good phazers, Wartortle and Murkrow are both good users of haze.
5. Keep your wincon safe. If they kill your perish song user or whatever else you're using, if the opponent destroys it, you're in for a world of hurt.

 

[Annoyer]

despicable...

Stall is probably one of the most reliable ways to ladder or play in general because with a good team that checks common, strong threats - its pretty hard to break down a well-built stall team. The most common mons on Stall teams are Missy, Alomomola, Audino, Bastiodon, Garbodor, Mandibuzz, Roselia, and Wartortle. There are other mons that work well on stall too given the right support but these mons listed are usually "stall staples". Stall in general is kinda hard to build in this meta because most teams usually have Spikes which make switching a lot harder for the opposing team mainly because a lot of Stall mons are grounded (although alomo/audino have regen to slightly mitigate but not by much). There are also a bunch of threats such as Jynx which is definitely one of the most threatening mons against stall especially with LO since not much can take hits from that and teams have to rely on wearing it down with LO recoil most of the time. Other threats such as SubBU Braviary, Pinsir, Carracosta, Taunt Mandibuzz, or Samurott can all potentially threaten stall teams with the right conditions such as a weakened Alomo or Bastiodon gone. Although stall may seem kinda stale, you can always try out new things such as Magic Coat Audino, Bronzor, Zweilous etc (stole ebeast ideas cause that nigga plays stall for a living). When making a stall team its important to make sure you're not weak to alot of common threats while still having a goal in mind such as wearing mons down with hazards or Toxic. Some common roles that should usually be filled on a stall team are SRer, wisher(s), cleric, sometimes a win condition such as psong missy or cm mush, a Spiker/Tspiker, sometimes spin blocker and/or rapid spinner, and some Toxic mons. Stall teams are really prone to hax though because a badly timed crit can really end the game and/or really change the gameplan.

Now time to talk about playing against Stall teams. Its important to pressure your opponent instead of them playing you so you have to play kinda agressive because if both players play cautiously or just the obvious plays, the stall team will win in the end. Its also important to create a kind of win condition such as attempting to sweep with an SD Pinsir and you have to make certain objectives throughout the match such as weakening Alomo, weakening Missy, and getting up hazards will help in this process too as well as timing a good situation to set up. Definitely take playing against stall teams into consideration during teambuilding because otherwise, you will find yourself in pain so try putting stuff like spikes on the team, Trick mons, threatening attackers such as Jynx, and a lot of other things can be used to beat stall altho not 100% of the time.

The team I'll be using is the one I rmted using some cool mons such as Munchlax and it is a semi-stall team so its not exactly stall but with a bit more offense. Its a cool stall team that doesnt feature common stall mons such as Alomomola or Missy but still has the same kind of mindset such as beating the opponent with hazards while still walling common threats. ill be using the alt - "swag fat boi". team - here it is

tl; dr - stall is hella gayeee to face =/

 

[Punchshroom]

Well I've been doing stall for pretty much my entire NU run so yeah, it still works~

My initial variant of "stall" is Riolu. Well I associate it with stall because you need hazards & more importantly, the right opportunity and conditions, but Riolu can easily get going if one plays their cards right, and has the moves to counter damn near anything looking to stop its chain.

One very successful pokemon I've used in stall in Liepard. How could it not work, really? Prankster Encore stops the numerous setup sweepers looking to setup on your walls, it has STAB Foul Play which can take out powerful mons, and it has high speed to respond to threats if necessary. It is a bit on the frail side, but well worth the benefits (frankly if it were bulkier most of you would be kicking it out of NU no questions asked). It has a whole slew of moves that can easily break opposing stall such as Toxic, Taunt (mainly for Mandibuzz) and Knock Off, and this works because Liepard draws in defensive mons like the plague, which makes these moves extraordinarily effective.

Will post more soon.

 

[ryan]

• why this playstyle in particular is or isn't effective in this metagame

Stall has been an effective strategy in NU for as long as I've played in the tier; however, it is also the hardest type of team to build. It's really difficult to check or counter every offensive threat in the tier, especially considering how many heavy hitters, such as Jynx, Charizard, Eelektross, and Sawk, we have in NU. On that other hand, there are also a lot of different Pokemon that are viable in stall. For every really hard hitter we have in the tier, we have another two Pokemon that can fit into a stall team, especially considering that the best Wish passer in lower tiers is Alomomola. Using one or both of Alomomola and Audino gives a stall team a lot of leeway in what they use. If you have a Wish ready to pass every few turns, you can force a lot more switches (and thus more hazard damage) than what even a successful VoltTurn team can.

The biggest problem with using a stall team—to me at least—is keeping hazards off of your side of the field. It's really difficult to handle opposing Scolipede, particularly bulkier variants, because it's so fast and not too easy to take down without something tailored to beating it. For example, when I built my most recent stall team just a couple of days ago, I almost used a bulky variant of Piloswine with Ice Shard / Roar / Earthquake / Stone Edge just so that I could 2HKO uninvested Scolipede with Stone Edge + Ice Shard with the added benefit of checking Electric-types more easily. Instead, I decided to run Misdreavus who could force Scolipede out with the threat of a burn or a Taunt, and while it handles Scolipede decently well, if I had the room for it, I would love to have Piloswine as well.

• what Pokemon are most successful at this playstyle (is there a pokemon you haven't considered before such as braviary for example viable in stall? why? how?)

Annoyer came up with a pretty good list of Pokemon that are successful in stall. I like to deviate from that a bit (for example, I've never used Wartortle because of how badly it clashes with Alomomola). Bastiodon is cool, but I usually prefer Metang or Regirock for my Flying/Normal resist, though if you need a phaser as well, Bastiodon is a decent choice. I just don't like how weak it is to Kangaskan's Earthquake, Zangoose's Close Combat, Ursaring's Earthquake or Close Combat, etc. I also tend to use Garbodor over Roselia as a Spiker because of its ability to tame VoltTurn a bit with Rocky Helmet. I've also found that Garbodor gets for chances to set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes than what Roselia does because of the more physically offensive nature of the game. Finally, Garbodor is my last resort way of handling certain setup sweepers that I can't reliably beat every time. Rocky Helmet + Aftermath recoil's a bitch. :V

• teams you've been using that fit into this playstyle category

My current stall team that I just built a couple days ago has defensive DD Altaria and Perish Song Misdreavus as its win conditions. So far, Misdreavus has definitely been far more reliable at finishing the opponent off than what Altaria has, but I still really like Altaria on the team because of its great resistances, reliable recovery, and access to Heal Bell. The main problem with Altaria is that it can't muscle past the best defensive Pokemon in the tier. For example, I set up to +6 the other day with it on the ladder and KOed this guy's Camerupt. Then he brought in his Ditto and stole all my boosts. Screwed right? I sacced my Metang that was almost dead anyways and brought in my Alomomola which only took 40% from a +6 Dragon Claw. u_u Aside from my two win conditions, my team is fairly standard. Metang is my Flying/Normal check and generally obscenely bulky Pokemon, Alomomola is my Wish passer, Ludicolo is my rain check, and Garbodor is my Spiker.

• speak about your ladder or general experiences with this playstyle

Laddering with stall is simultaneously the easiest and most difficult way to ladder. What I mean by this is that while stall is easy to ladder with for a host of reasons—stubborn opponents that ragequit when their sweeper can't break through the team, the ease of setting up hazards on newer players, etc.—you're also using the playstyle that is most vulnerable to hax. Being on the receiving side of the assault means that you're more prone to being hit with a crit or losing an important team member to a secondary effect such as being frozen or getting a Special Defense drop. This is really the most annoying consequence of using stall on the ladder in my experience. Otherwise, stall is a lot of fun to use.

• if this playstyle was simply better in a past metagame

I'd say that it's about as effective as it has always been. The main difference between stall now and stall in past metagames is that now stall teams have to worry more about hazards and before it used to have to worry about harder hitting opponents. Basically, in past metagames, stall teams had to worry about obscenely powerful Pokemon, including Life Orb Gardevoir; Choice Band Sawk, Braviary, and Golurk; and Choice Specs Exeggutor. While you should still prepare for these threats, they are seen far less frequently now than what they used to be. Instead, the current metagame favors getting hazards up fast and weakening foes for faster and less powerful Pokemon to do most of the damage. This means that stall has to worry about a different style of offense, but I don't know that one was harder or easier to prepare for than the other. I'd say they're about the same.

Stall is really good, but it's also a lot harder to build an effective stall team than it is to build an effective offensive team. This turns a lot of players away from using it, but if you use Pokemon that synergize well and focus on getting hazards up at the earliest opportunity possible, it's not too difficult to succeed with it as a playstyle.

 

[Lasagne]

I've actually being playing stall quite a bit recently, and have fallen in love with one Pokemon in particular: Zweilous. This thing is just a monster, and really fucks over pretty much anything it wants to. Zweilous can take pretty much any Special attack you choose to throw at it (including Jynx's Ice Beam iirc), and then retaliate by forcing them out into something else that (hopefully) can't deal with it. One of the main appeals is the fact that most teams usually have only 2 or so Pokemon that can deal with Zweilous, so when you're phazing it's only a 1 in 3 chance of bringing in something that you need to switch out of (which is, admittedly, approximately the same chance of Focus Blast missing :[). I often find myself in trouble against one of the opponent's Pokemon, often a utility counter Misdreavus, because I've made a mistake and let Zweilous die earlier in the game. It's also one of the best checks in the tier to Pokemon like Exeggutor, Misdreavus, Haunter, and pretty much any Pokemon which prefers to attack on the Special side of the spectrum, which can otherwise be threatening to stall teams by taking out key members.

The team I've been using consists of Zweilous, Alomomola, Audino, Roselia, Piloswine and Misdreavus. YES IT LOOKS LIKE EVIOLITERS SHUT UP :( I didn't mean for it to resemble ebeast's team so much, but I wanted to build around Zweilous/Audino/Alomomola, and this just fitted in well. I originally had Wartortle in Misdreavus' place, but the lack of a spinblocker was bad. Honestly it didn't affect the team too much though (but that was probably the ladder being dumb; there were several instances where there were no repercussions to the opponent spinning but they didn't cos idk). I also had a severe weakness to Sawk, as it could 2HKO every member of my team. I either had to put Missy or Musharna on the team, and Missy fits better, so I decided to use it over Wartortle. The little turtle was definitely very useful, however.

Back to Zweilous now. I used the usual Specially Defensive Restalk set with 2 phazing moves, and it did so much work it wasn't even funny. It was very useful to have a status absorber, despite having a cleric on the team in the form of Heal Bell Audino. One funny situation that I remember clearly caused Zweilous to completely destroy an opponent's team due to a move on their part. First turn, I had Piloswine and he had Jynx. I predicted Lovely Kiss and switched to Zweilous to absorb it. He instead used Trick, and gave Zweilous a Choice Scarf. I proceeded to switch out into something to beat the Jynx, and over the next 10-20 turns set up all my hazards. I switched in Zweilous and used Rest (it was weakened at that point), then switched out again. A few turns later, I brought Zweilous back in and used Sleep Talk. You can imagine what happened from there. After every 2 turns of using Sleep Talk I switched out as to reset the sleep counter, and then switched straight back in. With the Jynx gone at the start of the match, I outsped his entire team and just phazed him repeatedly, using a sort of pseudo Riolu. That was probably the highlight of that day, and cheered me up greatly as it was very fun to just repeatedly hit a button and win, especially when my opponent had set up that opportunity for me.

Stall is actually quite enjoyable once you build a good team with it, though I used to consider it boring and vastly preferred Offense. The main problem with stall in my opinion is the lack of diversity available to make a good stall team. Annoyer made a good list of the staple stall Pokemon; the best Pokemon to use on stall. I've said it a million times, and I'll say it again, however. Zweilous is up there with the stall greats imo simply for its ability to take hits with ease and deal with so many of the tier's biggest threats.

I'll probably make a post about Riolu stall in particular later, but let me just say this: FUCK. RIOLU.

 

[Aasgier]

@Lasagne: Still remember my Riolu knocking out your Zweilous so my Misdreavus could dismantle the rest of your team? :p

Good, jokes aside... due to Stall being somewhat common in NU, a Toxic Spikes absorber is mandatory on pretty much every team, even Hyper Offence. Either Arbok, Garbodor, Roselia, Scolipede or Skuntank, you need one.


Then there is the jackal, and the team structure named after this little guy. Riolu-stall is where it is at. If it gets in, and you have no fast priority, you are done for. Riolu is incredibly devastating and every team should be prepared for it. Accompanied by hazard setters as well as Liepard and Misdreavus/Frillish, and a few things that are just obscenely bulky, it is very annoying and difficult to face unlike standard stall that can be broken down with obscenely powerful attacks.
I like Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard in the sun to do just that since it breaks anything and everything, and Gardevoir to assist in wallbreaking (No Jynx because Jynx isn't that good in the Sun).

 

[Brammi]

Riolu Stall loses to Leech Seed btw. And also against last mon boosters.

Munchlax can take any special Charizard.

 

[Aasgier]

1. Riolu stall does not lose to Leech Seed and Status, since Riolu has Substitute and commonly runs it.
2. Munchlax is not common, and it will be weakened far enough for Victreebell to clean it up anyway.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

I think Riolu has gotten worse off this meta, and that's due to the omnipresence of priority in this meta. We all know that priority is the best way to counter Jynx, and most teams thus carry priority nowadays, some even carry two because Jynx can easily Lovely Kiss one priority user out of commission. I mean, Riolu can play around it with some prediction, but it's usually mindgames for these sort of things. Most offensive teams that are prepared for Jynx are also inherently prepared for Riolu, which sucks I guess