Creative and Underrated Sets Balanced Hackmons Edition (NO SHITTY GIMMICKS, POSTS WILL BE DELETED)

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berry

what kind
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Confirming that Ranger Mike runs Icicle Crash MMX.

My 6 Ray-M team was devastated and I had to switch to Physically Defensive Fur Coat from Specially defensive, so it can definitely take down 1 if it can sweep my entire team.

Edit: As for fur coat yvel, I believe Bolt Strike is the superior option. If you run Icicle Crash you barely get the 2hko with rocks (head-calc, correct if wrong)
sorry I meant to write Icicle crash, I just didn't remember the move name :x

I wasn't really defending the set, just correcting the calculations, hence why I didn't argue beyond that. Looking at it again, it seems like one of those "nice on paper" sets, but it's weak to a lot of physical attacking types, namely Electric, Rock, Fairy, and Ice, and only neutral to the others, Fire, Fighting, Normal, 1k Arrows, Bug, Steel, occasionally Dragon, and Gyrados. Resists Dark, but even Giratina, Cress, and Lugia can take repeated Knock Offs after they've lost their item. So yeah, not really a set I'd defend beyond incorrect calcs.
Indeed it is weak to several common types, but take a hint. If one attack does around 70% and it's super effective, you're bound to switch if you can't outspeed and KO. The main point of my first post was to show that it could take many common attacks (it's not invincible after all ) and not a +6 boomburst.


Oops yeah forgot Fur Coat. But yeah, I did talk with someone who did use that set, i.e. Adrian Marin, and he said it was flawed. That is saying a lot. Just let that sink in.
Also due to Fur Coat it would hate to be against a certain ability called "Mold Breaker." This means that almost anything with Mold Breaker and the appropriate attack stops it cold.
Also, about that set, I also feel uncomfortable seeing it without HP investment. I can't stand seeing a wall without HP investment. Also, as Adrian said, you don't have physical or special walls in BH, you have dedicated counters. That last point doesn't matter that much, but hey, it is always nice to know that. I forget that at times, and I am a real stall boner.
I agree with Adrian, there are flaws, but the main point of this set is to predict an attack that would KO one of your Pokemon, switch into Yveltal, and absorb the attack. I should've specified, but this set isn't meant to stay in battle for extended periods of time.

A legitimate question, what would be a good amount of HP EVs for it to run? And should I even have an attack investment at all?
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
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This guy has been putting in shifts not just on my team as a great non-niche Ray counter in case you guys would like to try it out

Ragnarock (Regirock) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: null Spe
- Volt Switch
- Infestation
- Sacred Fire
- Diamond Storm
 
sorry I meant to write Icicle crash, I just didn't remember the move name :x



Indeed it is weak to several common types, but take a hint. If one attack does around 70% and it's super effective, you're bound to switch if you can't outspeed and KO. The main point of my first post was to show that it could take many common attacks (it's not invincible after all ) and not a +6 boomburst.




I agree with Adrian, there are flaws, but the main point of this set is to predict an attack that would KO one of your Pokemon, switch into Yveltal, and absorb the attack. I should've specified, but this set isn't meant to stay in battle for extended periods of time.

A legitimate question, what would be a good amount of HP EVs for it to run? And should I even have an attack investment at all?
248 HP EVs maximises overall bulk, and also gives Yveltal a Stealth Rock number. If you want to invest on attack, I recommend running an Adamant nature with 144 Atk EVs. The Atk EVs allows Yveltal to OHKO uninvested Mega Gengar 100% of the time.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
This guy has been putting in shifts not just on my team as a great non-niche Ray counter in case you guys would like to try it out

Ragnarock (Regirock) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: null Spe
- Volt Switch
- Infestation
- Sacred Fire
- Diamond Storm
this set is so amazing, ever since you told me to use it, it NEVER let me down(living ogres steam eruption which i did NOT expect out of it). personally, i prefer a specially defensive nature, to live rayrays boomburst a bit better, but other then that, its an amazing set.
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
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Yeah it's quite good but what really is the best thing about it imo is that it's not as one dimensional as soundproof which i don't even look as a counter for ates anymore. Like you said it can not only take it from ogre, but also from protean mewtwoY which is really good and stab storm can do great damage on ray and the rest even without attack ev's. It's also good for shed and the like. Physical based lets it take a decently strong /stab thousand arrows or even precipice because its defense is naturally good.

IF it's not so niche I can put it in the main BH thread.
 
Yeah it's quite good but what really is the best thing about it imo is that it's not as one dimensional as soundproof which i don't even look as a counter for ates anymore. Like you said it can not only take it from ogre, but also from protean mewtwoY which is really good and stab storm can do great damage on ray and the rest even without attack ev's. It's also good for shed and the like. Physical based lets it take a decently strong /stab thousand arrows or even precipice because its defense is naturally good.

IF it's not so niche I can put it in the main BH thread.
Oh my gosh, I have to use it. If based go E4 Flint says it is good I am using it!
 
First Adrian posts a wall breaker and now Flint posts a more defensive set? What madness is going on?

Also, have you tried Regirock in the sand? Gets pretty similar defensive bonuses and you can be a bit more flexible with the ability and moveset (or keep the AV to get even more Sp. D). Of course, it means running a sand team, but at least Sheddys everywhere will despise you!
 
First Adrian posts a wall breaker and now Flint posts a more defensive set? What madness is going on?

Also, have you tried Regirock in the sand? Gets pretty similar defensive bonuses and you can be a bit more flexible with the ability and moveset (or keep the AV to get even more Sp. D). Of course, it means running a sand team, but at least Sheddys everywhere will despise you!
To be honest, it doesn't work that way. Weather has sucked ever since gf was a ass and made weather temporary. Now, you only have two pokes with Sand Stream, which severely cuts down on your ability to counter things like -ate spam.
 
Even when weather was dominant, it was very rare to run multiple setters. And I can assure you, Sand and Rain do not suck even in Gen VI BH. Harder to use, yes, and I can't comment on Sun or Hail since I've not taken them for a spin this gen, but there's little that can handle a Swift Swim or Sand Rush nuker. At least, not as the meta is currently.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
First Adrian posts a wall breaker and now Flint posts a more defensive set? What madness is going on?
it is actually quite logical. when you are offensive, you need to know what can take your hits, and when your defensive, you need to know stuff that breaks shit. its like...scouting the opposition to the point you know them better then they know themselves, to the point of small details become second nature.

it used to be is why offensive players and stall players up high can be so good before the ev limit/oras allowed scrubs to hyperoffense up the teir, like flint. its also why i'm notably decent this metagame compared to last generation(if you knew me last gen, my W/L ratio was like...2/200), since i actually grew into it, and know more about the metagame. its also why some "Creative sets" are really good. because its not in the norm, and you catch someone off guard. which basically decides the match right then and there lol

Even when weather was dominant, it was very rare to run multiple setters. And I can assure you, Sand and Rain do not suck even in Gen VI BH. Harder to use, yes, and I can't comment on Sun or Hail since I've not taken them for a spin this gen, but there's little that can handle a Swift Swim or Sand Rush nuker. At least, not as the meta is currently.
exept you know...desolate land groudon, and primordial seas(for sand rush) or ate...or imposter...or shedinja with safety goggles(not the best, but it still blocks it lol) oh no...4/7 turns of annihilation in a teir infested with kings sheild offensive pokes...priority spam, and imposter. tbh, there is a lot that can handle swift swimmers and sand rusher nukers. not saying they will be bad. but id prefer just nuking without relying on a weather condition that can be easily shot down/countered/stalled.

however, id like to see how mega latios would work as a sand rusher, since last gen it was a complete nuke.
 
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I don't have a bunch of replays on hand, but I just started a match with my Sand team when I saw your post and I was like "well, why not?" for using it as an example. Mind, my opponent probably wasn't very good, and this team has only been lightly updated to ORAS since I'm waiting for the suspect before doing any major revisions on teams. (So the team definitely can and will later be improved, such as switching Cress for something else later.)

But, it features Groudon-P unable to switch into a Sand Rusher (didn't have Desolate Lands, but that's a moot point since it died on the switch and I could have trivially reset sand), Imposter nabbing my Sand Rusher and getting nowhere with it, and the sand setter itself putting in work besides setting sand (namely in killing the Imposter). Not shown: Primordial Seas Scizor-M (which really does not want to take 1K Arrows from my Groudon anyway... nor do any other common users want to) or Safety Sheddy... which I have several other ways of KOing or crippling regardless.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-182586312

If you want to see the importable, just ask. I'm going to be making some significant revisions soonish, so I don't care if everyone knows what it is.

Also, I could definitely try out Latios as a Rusher. What would it be, like Spacial / Psystrike / Coverage / Filler or Coverage?


Edit: Oh, and the madness statement was kind of a joke. :p
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
i dont know tbh, but honestly, you hooked me, and now i want to try out a sand team of my own, and i have an idea for a rusher that imo sounds preeeetty interesting
 

AWailOfATail

viva la darmz
Alright, let's give this a shot.

kill for a dream (Audino-Mega) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Moonblast
- Topsy-Turvy
- Heal Order
- Thousand Waves

So, anyone remember that PH support Xern set from XY? Well, it's back and better than ever. Moonblast is for STAB and mean dragons. Topsy is honestly a great move in general, allowing anything that can take one hit to potentially stop a sweep. Heal Order is for healing (go figure). Finally, 1k Waves is to trap Imposters on the switch. This way, you can outlast them PP-wise, forcing them to Struggle to death.
But that's not all this set does. It also acts as a great counter to Moldy Gengar-Mega. Since most only run Secret Sword/Ghost Judgment along with Dark Void and either Substitute or Shell Smash, the only thing Mega-Gengar can do is Secret Sword. And then we have great calcs like this:
+2 252+ SpA Mega Gengar Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino: 153-180 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- 19.5% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

Also I haven't seen a MegaGar run Sludge Bomb in a while, so if that starts to become popular, Yvel will probably be the better choice. But Audino's usefulness in general is great, from sponging Knock Offs to switching in on Dragon Tails (it's a hard counter to like 3 of my pokes lol). Hope you give it a try!

And EVs can be changed at will to suit your needs
 
Lcass4919 Good luck with it! Just don't play as badly as I did in that one match you spectated. That was awful >.>

...or update your Rusher without updating your team's coverage. I used to use Terrakion as mine before ORAS, which worked nicely and was easily walled by Cress (part of the reason I was using it on that team). My Groudon-P is a bit tricky to handle by my team right now, but at least the Imposters never carry Choice Bands, so they don't get all the OHKOs that I do.



About Desolate Lands Groudon and rain, while dicking around with my rain team a bit too (which is also only lightly updated), I discovered this for Swift Swim Palkia vs Desolate Lands Groudon. (I should have saved the replay, but whatever.)

252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon: 186-219 (46 - 54.2%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO

But nobody runs that spread on Groudon. They're probably running either HP/Atk or Atk/Spe, so it probably looks more like this.

252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 262-309 (64.8 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Spacial Rend vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 262-309 (76.8 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Basically, Groudon risks a guaranteed 2HKO if it switches in manually if it doesn't correctly predict Water Spout. Or OHKO if any hazards are in play and it's a standard offensive Groudon. And even if it doesn't, it must run Jolly at least 228 speed EVs and to not risk getting outsped by Timid Palk on the following turn, but it still can't OHKO without any prior damage without being Adamant using Precipice Blades (unless I'm misremembering and PB is lower than BP 120, in which case it's worse).

Or in other words, Desolate Lands Groudon only mildly annoys Rain teams, provided they have a good check to switch to in case of a mis-predict.

*I used Timid Lustrous Palk because that's what I'm using. Specs will just trash Groudon as long as it doesn't try to Water Spout it.


Related, I'm thinking about putting Entrainment on my weather setters to piss off Desolate/Primordial users.
 
i would like to contribute with a set i just came up with that actually works pretty well.

Sceptile-Mega @ Draco Plate
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electrify
- Judgment
- Giga Drain/Seed Flare
- Earth Power

this set is semi-imposter proof, resisting 2/3 moves, immunity to electrify, and hitting back with a 180 base power super effective judgement. since electrify has no priority, you need high speed to make this work, which mega sceptile has. mega alakazam and gengar were also options, but if the imposter runs a spooky plate, you are in a sudden death speed tie. basically you electrify spam, which makes all enemy attacks electric, activating your lightning rod. do until you have your sp atk at a desired level, then you start sweeping. you can run giga drain if you want some recovery, or you can opt for seed flare to get that extra miss power. earth power is for covering heatran or other steel types that will probably wall you early on. the things you need to watch out for are all -ate users, who will most likely 1hko you. prankster topsy turvy is also something to be aware of. i hope you enjoy

[edit: apparently i didnt make this set because 1 minute ago i faced a guy with the exact same thing. god dammit]
Um, is the drace plate with judgement necessary? I'd suggest using draco meteor while giving it a different item
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Um, is the drace plate with judgement necessary? I'd suggest using draco meteor while giving it a different item
that kind of defeats the purpose of it being semi imposter proof now wouldn't it. judgement is so when imposter trys to hit you, it wont be able to ohko you. plus draco meteor lowers your special attack 2 stages, which would also defeat the purpose of its role.
 
Having doubts about how broken Shadow Tag is? Let me clear those right up.



Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Oblivion Wing
- Encore
- Quiver Dance
- Substitute

Here it is, the most potent set I've used in any metagame ever. It comes out of nowhere, takes a Pokémon out of the game and leaves your opponent to deal with a Gengar with 6 Quiver Dances and a substitute. The idea is to use Illusion to bait a Normal/Fighting/otherwise non-damaging move, then mega evolve and Encore immediately before they can switch out. Set up a bit to boost your Speed and chain Encores until you're at +6 and subbed, then sweep. At this point, you're Imposter-proof, priority-proof, Prankster-proof, Boomburst-proof, special-proof, faster than everything and hitting really hard. Oblivion Wing has no immunities and keeps you healthy, but if you're a fan of dying and being walled, you can use a different attack.

Doesn't like Unaware or teams with multiple priority users. Obviously this loses if you trap the wrong Pokémon.
Theoretically its awesome. But practically, after a few weeks, i wasnt able to get "hit" by a normal/fighting move. So I dont know about its viability.
 
Chansey (F) @ Burn Drive
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Skill Swap
- Wish
- Parting Shot

With the rise in usage of techno blast to counter soundproof this has made imposters with drives very viable. What is your first instinct when your "-ater" is impostered? To go into your steel type of course and said steel type will now proceed to get bopped by burn drive techno blast. Not really to much to say here just wanted to showcase this crisp innovation. :)
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Chansey (F) @ Burn Drive
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Skill Swap
- Wish
- Parting Shot

With the rise in usage of techno blast to counter soundproof this has made imposters with drives very viable. What is your first instinct when your "-ater" is impostered? To go into your steel type of course and said steel type will now proceed to get bopped by burn drive techno blast. Not really to much to say here just wanted to showcase this crisp innovation. :)
well to be completely serious. this set is pretty bad. i get what your doing, but theres so many factors your taking into account, that you need to "coinflip 3 times" per se, for this to be successful. when i say "coin flip" i mean you need 3 odds to be in your favor in order for burn drives to have use. 1) the person needs to be using techno blast, this one is pretty self explanatory, no technoblast=nerfed chansey utility. 2) the opponent needs to be using a non "flash fire" steel. This one is also pretty self explanitory, flash fire makes your chansey a complete joke to the steel type, meanwhile other typed drives lack the power to even 3hko it. and lastly: the defending pokemon needs to be steel type to begin with. lets be serious here, there ARE other pokemon that counter/check ates. theres shedinja, chansey, soundproof groudon, regirock soundproof slowbro, and so on and so fourth. soundproof has died down a lot, so technoblast is also pretty damn rare from what ive seen, and to be honest, ive had no problems with my ates not running it and on top of that, teammates could easily attack it and whittle it down (like running v-create on a diance for example). unlike with spoopy chans, whom 99% of the time ran judgement, so it would be easy to see and stop, and literally had one thing to stop mega gengar in the teir(or plain gengar last gen).

and lastly...what does burn drive accomplish that teambuilding doesn't? to be honest, you lose more then you gain...chansey has way too much utility to waste 50% of it to POSSIBLY(like...~25% chance on a technical point of veiw) stop one defensive pokemon, when running coverage/having a lure EASILY does the same thing ~99% of the time.
 
*bump*

Here's a set I've been trying that puts in a LOT of work versus stall teams. All you have to do is get a free switch (which isnt hard), and watch things die. While it certainly isn't a creative set, well, it's definitely underrated, as I've never seen one of these before:

Diancie-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Techno Blast
- Surf
- Magma Storm

It functions like the old Kyu-W set, but unlike Kyu-W, it isn't walled by Kyogre, and I think that's what makes it so dangerous. Sure, it loses out in revenge killing, but let's be honest, the other things on your team can do that, and everyone prepares their -ate espeed counters anyways. Surf OHKOs stuff like Soundproof PrimalDon, Magma storm destroys non-flash fire steel types who try to switch in, as well as shed.

Calcs (comparison)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Registeel: 200-236 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Registeel: 124-147 (34 - 40.3%) -- 46.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 153-181 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 96-113 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 10.3% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 220-259 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 136-161 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Primal Kyogre: 195-231 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Primal Kyogre: 121-144 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- 31.7% chance to 3HKO


The point is, switch-ins are extremely rare. And when you do spot a soundproof mega-aggron or arceus or something, smack it with a techno blast.

You could run Specs Mega-Ray, but people are so overprepared for aerilate, it's not even funny.
 
*bump*

Here's a set I've been trying that puts in a LOT of work versus stall teams. All you have to do is get a free switch (which isnt hard), and watch things die. While it certainly isn't a creative set, well, it's definitely underrated, as I've never seen one of these before:

Diancie-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Techno Blast
- Surf
- Magma Storm

It functions like the old Kyu-W set, but unlike Kyu-W, it isn't walled by Kyogre, and I think that's what makes it so dangerous. Sure, it loses out in revenge killing, but let's be honest, the other things on your team can do that, and everyone prepares their -ate espeed counters anyways. Surf OHKOs stuff like Soundproof PrimalDon, Magma storm destroys non-flash fire steel types who try to switch in, as well as shed.

Calcs (comparison)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Registeel: 200-236 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Registeel: 124-147 (34 - 40.3%) -- 46.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 153-181 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 96-113 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 10.3% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 220-259 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 136-161 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Primal Kyogre: 195-231 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Pixie Plate Pixilate Diancie Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Primal Kyogre: 121-144 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- 31.7% chance to 3HKO


The point is, switch-ins are extremely rare. And when you do spot a soundproof mega-aggron or arceus or something, smack it with a techno blast.

You could run Specs Mega-Ray, but people are so overprepared for aerilate, it's not even funny.
It does do a lot of damage, but there are some problems that I see. For one, because of Specs, you have to predict to be able to use Techno Blast effectively.

This set also has some issues with revenge killing. For one, -ates give it trouble because it can't use KS. It also loses to Pokemon like the Mewtwos and Gengar because of its considerably lower speed tier. For that reason, I feel like Scarf might be a little better. I actually ran it at one point:

Diancie-Mega @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Magma Storm
- Volt Switch
- Switcheroo


Specs makes for some really good wallbreaking, though.
 

OM

It's a starstruck world
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Latias-Mega (F) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA /8 SpD /248 Spe
Mild Nature
- Psystrike
- Scald/Steam Eruption/Defog
- Spacial Rend
- Quiver Dance

So, I've been editing this Set, and It's slowly became a staple on my team when chatter got banned,And Whilst Magic Guard Defog is rather nice to pull up damage after you stupidly let them get SR, 3x Spikes and 2x TSpikes while you set up and while I never save replays, I'll try and get one if it really matters.

Edit: Btw, I saved one: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-226263723 I misplayed against The Defensor, but Latias-mega cleaned up at the end. (This might be able to show off my Slowbro set also but i don't wanna give it up :P)
 
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