CAP Updates: Malaconda Discussion (Complete)

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I dislike defensive abilities like Regenerator or Stamina, as I think they might end up completely outclassing Harvest. If we want to add another competitive ability, I think an offensive one, like Strong Jaw, is the way to go, as it would give Malaconda a new niche, without replacing its old ability. If not, then I would support just not including any ability. Mala has a lot of troubles right now, but a bad ability is not one of them.
 
To be honest, I'm fine with keeping the Abilities as is, but if so, please turn Infiltrator into the Hidden Ability. Regenerator and Stamina may as well outclass Harvest as defensive Abilities.

In terms of moves, Malaconda could use Flare Blitz or Fire Lash quite nicely in Sun, but the former works best with Regenerator so the snek can switch out frequently and recover some of its lost health. I really want to see Coil+Power Trip Malaconda eventually, but Stamina would only make it ridiculously broken.

The only things I can see Malaconda needing are some decent movepool additions like Coil and Fire Lash.
 
I've tried starting this post a few times, and eventually have come to the followng conclusion: Regenerator allows Malaconda to forgo using a Sitrus, which means it can run Assault Vest in its place. Assault Vest can allow for Malaconda to survive almost any single unboosted, non-z move special attack with just 252 HP and a neutral nature. With full special investment, Malaconda can just sponge special hits for days while knocking off or u-turning expected switch-ins or just to preserve its health. Alternatively you have a spinner that can come in on almost a lot of special attackers and isn't something you want to plop a ghost in front of to spinblock since STAB Knock Off can hurt a ton. Assault Vest will also allow for Malaconda to invest in defenses, but most Super Effective Physical Attacks will probably OHKO it, even with some investment.
 
I dislike defensive abilities like Regenerator or Stamina, as I think they might end up completely outclassing Harvest. If we want to add another competitive ability, I think an offensive one, like Strong Jaw, is the way to go, as it would give Malaconda a new niche, without replacing its old ability. If not, then I would support just not including any ability. Mala has a lot of troubles right now, but a bad ability is not one of them.
And boost what exactly ? Malac already runs Knock Off/Sucker Punch over Crunch and FYI, Crunch is the only bitting move Malac even learns (which I think it's incredibly odd). All that Strong Jaw would do is boost just one move and that's it, which can be just easily replaced with a more useful one like Knock Off or SP to help with its speed. I can't actually see Malac running a strinkly offensive set because of it's terrible speed and the POWERFUL base 100 Atk. Yes Coil can boost its attacking power more, but would it really be that good to give up on a ability like Harvest which can add far more usefulness? Giving Malac Strong Jaw would be like not giving it anything at all. That's why I also belive we should stick to the entire "sun abuser"/utility/bulky mon thing that Malac is trying to do (even do that typing is working againts it).

Edit: On a sidenote, if Malaconda does actually end up with the Elemental Fangs in its update (it should and it will), then I can see SJ being a bit more useful. Even so, it would need to get a Coil up to do some good ammount of damage and I'm not even touching that Speed.
 
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G-Luke

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And boost what exactly ? Malac already runs Knock Off/Sucker Punch over Crunch and FYI, Crunch is the only bitting move Malac even learns (which I think it's incredibly odd). All that Strong Jaw would do is boost just one move and that's it, which can be just easily replaced with a more useful one like Knock Off or SP to help with its speed. I can't actually see Malac running a strinkly offensive set because of it's terrible speed and the POWERFUL base 100 Atk. Yes Coil can boost its attacking power more, but would it really be that good to give up on a ability like Harvest which can add far more usefulness? Giving Malac Strong Jaw would be like not giving it anything at all. That's why I also belive we should stick to the entire "sun abuser"/utility/bulky mon thing that Malac is trying to do (even do that typing is working againts it).

Edit: On a sidenote, if Malaconda does actually end up with the Elemental Fangs in its update (it should and it will), then I can see SJ being a bit more useful. Even so, it would need to get a Coil up to do some good ammount of damage and I'm not even touching that Speed.
It doesn't even learn Coil.
 
Coil could work nicely with Chesto Berry + Rest + Harvest, which helps more than Regenerator since such a set is meant to be a late-game sweeper/Staller rather than a pivot. Furthermore, if Malaconda gains Leech seed, then a SubSeed set using Figy/Sitrus Berry would be usable as well. Finally, Natural Gift could be usable with some berries like Occa, which is both useful for his fire coverage (even though Fairy you don't 2HKO SpD Celesteela when Max Att, this one can't use Leech Seed) and for the added Fire resistance, of course it would be luck based on Harvest's effect and potentially outclassed depending of the coverage option we'll give to Conda, but it can still be interesting. My point is that Harvest shouldn't be completely outclassed by all aforementionned defensives abilities if we give moves to work with later.

I'm on the fence with Regenerator since I'd rather give it to something which has more problem to heal himself like Kitsunoh, but an AV Set could be really effective and fits very well on Malaconda.

Sadly, I don't think that a self seting Sunny Day defensive set will works really well anymore as everything it does is give you back your berry 100% of the time while increasing your fire weakness and take you a precious Move slot. That being said, if we really want to run Conda under Sun condition's, then Drought, Chlorophyll and Solar Power can all be used as Offensive abilities (especially for the two later).
 
What usefulness does Harves add thpugh? I have trouble keeping Mala alive long enough and end up Spamming healing trying to get Sun up to make Harvest worthwhile; because otherwise you are reliant on a coin flip to make the pokemon more useful.

I suggested Stamina, because it was something that I thought it could make use off, giving it some physical bulk that would allow it to take things like a non STAB, uninvested utility move - even at +1, Scizor can OHKO if fully invested, but would struggle otherwise. You've then got other options listed before; Guts Colossoil U-Turn, Buzzwole Leechlife (can gib a Malaconda at +3), Mimikyu who is immune to the Dragon Tail and can SD up and Play Rough (+2), a Flare Blitz from MegaCharX, Leech Life from Golisopod, or Araquanid.

I can see the issues with potentially Power Trip, Coil, and Stamina being an issue throwing out 100 BP STAB after only 2x Stamina+1* Coil, but that is more an issue with all 3 Combining. Probably barking up the wrong tree, and I know you guys seem heart set on that so wouldn't vote for Stamina because of that. That said, even with "Defensive Pivot" or whatever you want to call it, Malaconda struggles to compete anywhere near what you'd expect or want defensively. Usage and Viability makes that much obvious. When you have mon taking utility moves like UTurn (or rather, are using Utility moves for their utility normally, rather than for their offensive ability) amd are actually able to seriously damage, if not outright kill Mala.

An invested STAB UTurn, or similar powerful Super Effective move isn't primarily affected by the change to Stamina. However it makes it a ticking Time Bomb; even a Crunch/Power Whip after some (apparently wanted/forgone wish for Coil) stat ups it can become a physical monster. That doesn't mean that it can't be countered - even an uninvested Incineroar with Blaze of all the pokemon can run into a +4 power Whip or Knock Off and deal 65%+ damage to it in return with a Flare Blitz.

I figure with the current discussion stemming fairly negatively, I guess this won't be slated, and unless anyone has further points to raise against it (other than "but theoretical move X and theoretical move Y which it doesn't have yet would be broken") I won't belabour it further, other than to confirm calcs when I get onto a PC rather than my phone.
 

Deck Knight

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You know actually I hadn't considered Fire Lash for Malaconda, but it lets Mala straight up beat Celesteela, which can't break Harvest Sitrus in sun and can't overpower with Heavy Slam after an Attack drop. It also lets Mala invest fully defensive by removing the pressure to get an immediate 2HKO.

Fire Lash's Attack Drop in and of itself serves as a credible support move, especially because it dissuades Scizor and other Steel types from coming in. In addition it makes breaking through Harvest just by clicking a physical move much, much harder.

When Malaconda was originally made, Permanent sun made its primary mechanism of sun abuse Harvest, Knock Off was a weak utility move, and Fairy / Steel wasn't the dominant type war in the metagame. As a result many of its options were deliberately scaled back, and it has the lowest BST (but highest overall special bulk!) of the CAPs.

Malaconda was never meant to be a stat-up Pokemon and stat-ups detract from its role. It's too slow and too weak to U-turn to attempt a stat-up sweep. Sliding in and out of battle weakening opponents and viably setting up Sun? Seems perfect.
 
Deck Knight Actually, Fire Lash drops the target's Defense, not Attack. However, that alone makes it much more reliable than Flare Blitz.

Here's a set idea if we don't add any new Abilities.

Malaconda @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: Feel free to edit this section, mods.
Nature: Adamant / Careful?
Moves:
~Sunny Day
~Knock Off
~Fire Lash
~Power Whip ( / Glare? / Strength Sap?)

Unlike Flare Blitz, Fire Lash enables Malaconda to keep Harvest and the Sitrus Berry.

Flavor-wise, Fire Lash works because Malaconda can use its tail to whip things. A lash is just another word for a whip.
 
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Deck Knight

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Deck Knight Actually, Fire Lash drops the target's Defense, not Attack. However, that alone makes it much more reliable than Flare Blitz.
Ah, must have confused its effect with Trop Kick, which wouldn't be that effective type wise but would spare Mala a lot of KOs. Getting Trop Kicked by a snake though sounds very unpleasant for some reason.
 
Okay, so there are two abilities that I like right now; Regenerator is my choice for a more defensive ability, and Chlorophyll is my favorite offensive ability.

Regenerator would help give Malaconda an interesting role, as it would essentially function like a specially defensive and physical version of Tangrowth with the ability to pivot and has STAB Knock Off. It would breathe new life into Malaconda without straying to far from its current role. It would likely be best on a stall team, perhaps with Cyclohm as a teammate. It also is pretty evenly matched with Pyroak, as Malaconda can do more back than Pyroak and can pivot while Pyroak can recover easier.

Chlorophyll allows us to give Malaconda a new niche that takes better use of its pretty good attack and gives us a lot of options to explore. It also isn't broken because activating the ability requires either a moveslot which could be used for coverage, or MegaZardY, which sets it up for you. Thusly, it would likely stand on equal ground with Harvest for an ability, varying on what your team needs. It also addresses one of Malaconda's key issues in the current metagame, being its horrible speed.

I am not going to give my thoughts on the moves in detail as the discussion hasn't officially started yet, but I currently support Coil, Fire Lash / Flare Blitz (Only one, not both), and Power Trip.
 

jas61292

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Ok, can we just hold on for a second. This is supposed to be a discussion on abilities. cbrevan, the update leader, asked questions about whether or not we feel we even need a competitive ability addition here, and yet not only has every single person pretty much ignored the questions asked and just started arguing for specific abilities, but now we even have people arguing for moves when we are nowhere even near that part of the discussion yet. As a moderator I just want to remind everyone to stay on topic and actually focus on what cbrevan asked. Posts about moves that come before cbrevan asks us to move on to them will be deleted.

On a different note, as the GL for this update I just want to remind people that Malaconda was voted to get a minor update, not a major one. As such, any super powerful ability is already suspect, especially one that is attempting to do something its already good ability, Harvest, already does, but better. But more importantly, if you are feeling the need to drift into suggesting powerful moves on top of a powerful ability, then it is almost certainly going too far. Ultimately, we need to look and see if Malaconda needs improving, and if so find a minor way to do it. Not try and completely overhaul Malaconda, because that is not the kind of update it was voted to have.
 

LucarioOfLegends

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So, does Malaconda need a new ability? In my opinion, yes.

When looking at Malaconda, I see a lot of good things going for it as a defensive mon. It has great special bulk, mostly reliable recovery in Synthesis, good offenses to pick off mons with, and a variety of utility moves such as Glare, Knock Off, and Rapid Spin. I'd say it still has a very notable niche over other special walls, as it can paralyze foes with Glare and can pivot out with U-turn. However, I believe that Malaconda has the most flaws of any CAP, even pre-update Voodoom. Its physical defense is pretty lackluster, a 4x weakness to U-turn is not something to have in a meta ruled by VoltTurn, its offensive movepool is pretty shallow for a utility mon, and the times have changed where Fairy types, its current bane, rule the metagame, and a number of its major checks, such as Tomohawk, Mollux, Volkraken, and Ferrothorn have had a serious raise in viability. The biggest of these flaws in my opinion is its typing, which carries a staggering 7 weaknesses, including to common metagame types such as Poison, Flying, Ice, and Fairy.

With how many flaws that Malaconda has, a new ability in darn near required to be able to counteract at least one or two of these problems. Sure, the checks can be dealt with possible coverage additions, also solving the issue of offensive coverage. However its bigger problems have to do with its core design in its stats and typing, which cannot be touched in any way during the philosophy of these updates. While it would be nice for Malaconda to get an extra 20 points in defense or something, that's not how updates work and the GL will definetely not bend the rules for one case. And while Harvest is a great ability, as it can provide some passive healing, it doesn't help against the main issues of Malaconda. So, in my opinion, Malaconda needs an ability to counteracts its lack of defensive staying power, since that is its main issue if it wants to serve as a defensive mon.
 

Deck Knight

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I think Malaconda's thread has generally been all over the place because there is a struggle to identify what it is supposed to be doing. I did open the door on new moves a little too early because I felt like with everyone gunning for some super strong ability it would be useful to point out that Malaconda is entirely serviceable in its role without going to extreme abilities like Regenerator. I realize that took us off topic for a little while, but to address cbrevan's questions properly there should be a consensus on what our vision ought to be on what Malaconda does best.

One ability I think could cement Malaconda's role and address some of its inherent counter-intuitiveness is Sticky Hold, which allows it to switch into Knock Off and capitalize on its resistance without losing an item. This is particularly powerful with Rocky Helmet because Malaconda already has strong bulk against special non-contact moves, threatens Pokemon that tend to use Stone Edge, and resists Earthquake and Knock Off itself. Synthesis is somewhat reliable recovery to use and of course we have been discussing other Recovery options as well.
 

cbrevan

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I haven't had a chance to make a post on this yet, but I'm rather happy with the amount of discussion we've had in this thread. However, I do agree with both Jas61292 and Deck Knight in that discussion has started to meander and lose it's focus as everyone seems to have skipped the "should we do this" in favour of the "how we can". To start, the question I really wanted us to answer is the first one I include in the OP, "Do you believe Malaconda needs an additional competitive ability". From the posts in this thread, I can surmise that there are many people who believe Malaconda does need an additional ability, but that's about all I can do since only a handful of posters have answered this questions directly. This is a disappointment, as the other questions I asked in the OP were merely an elaboration on the first. Despite that, there has been some great discussion on what options are available to us and the pros and cons associated with each. To me, it seems like we're a bit stuck as to how far we want to go with the viability and usefulness of the proposed abilities, as well as the direction we want to go with. We've had a slew of abilities proposed, including standouts such as Regenorator, Drought, Intimidate, and Stamina, but there has been no real consensus on any ability, nor have any of the proposed abilities been argued to the extent that the benefits of the ability clearly out way the downsides. Therefore, I'd like to state my concerns for the proposed abilities, my thoughts on the extent of a buff Malaconda may need, and some more questions to help further focus this discussion.

First off, I believe the problems Malaconda suffers from stems from it's typing. Simply put, Grass/Dark typing has a negative matchup with a large portion of a metagame, especially the more viable part of it, and thus Malaconda is not able to capitalize on it's numerous strong points when it's typing is holding it back. Additionally, the Pokemon that Malaconda does have a positive matchup against, namely specially offensive Psychic-, Electric-, and Water-type special attackers, either are not popular enough to warrant Malaconda's spot on a team or commonly run a coverage move that allows them to beat Malaconda. For example, Malaconda is a terrific Pursuit trapper for the Lati twins that has the benefit of being able to switch into attacks repeatedly and remove hazards, but because the Latis are not as common this gen as they were last gen, Malaconda suffers for it. The new dominant Psychic- and Electric-type Pokemon of the metagame, Tapu Lele and Tapu Koko, are both able to pressure Malaconda with Moonblast or U-turn, respectively. Even if Malaconda had a better stat distribution, it would still be a niche option due to how the metagame is stacked against it. I don't believe we'll realistically be able to make Malaconda a good Pokemon in the sense of how Mollux or even Naviathan will be good with anything short of overdone, role altering changes. At best, we'll be able to improve what it already does or give it extra utility to better justify it's use in a hostile metagame, but even then we run the risk of completely overshadowing Malaconda's current options, which seems to me like a subpar course of action for a Pokemon who is very metagame dependent. This brings me to what Malaconda currently has and does. For starters, Malaconda is unique in that it's the only Pursuit trapper in the metagame with access to both reliably recovery and Rapid Spin, which sets it apart from the oft cited and easily worn down Colossoil. I really do believe that if Malaconda had popular targets to switch into and remove, it would see use as a Rapid Spinner. Harvest is also a surprisingly powerful and flexible ability; I'm actually surprised that there have been as many posts calling it mediocre and unreliable when Sitrus + Harvest is at the very least comparable to Leftovers when it comes to passive recovery. Given how Malaconda is often used as a pivot, the burst recovery does more in the long run than the recovery from Leftovers, which is even more reliant on the user being in for several turns than Harvest. Those posts also seem to ignore that Chesto + Rest is a perfectly viable combination for Malaconda that grants it significantly more healing than Malaconda's other options that also has the added benefit of turning Malaconda into a status absorber. As to how far we should go, I believe somewhere between not doing enough and overshadowing Harvest will be optimal. While abilities that do very little have a low risk of overshadowing what Malaconda already has, if they are realistically useless or too situational to see usage, I'd rather see we avoid them. I'm also wary of overshadowing Harvest because we can potentially change Malaconda's identity too much and trample over any sort of identity Malaconda has managed to accumulate.

Secondly, I'll address some concerns I have with the proposed abilities in this thread. Starting off with the abilities revolving around buffing Malaconda's defense, Intimidate is a very powerful ability that gives it's user the ability to selectively weaken opposing Pokemon, just by switching in. More ever, I believe Intimidate clearly overshadows Harvest by indirectly buffing Malaconda's weakest stat and thus improving Malaconda's ability to switch into more Pokemon. Even if Malaconda does not win the 1v1, Intimidate does allow Malaconda to force the opponent into a position where they have to switch a Pokemon out or suffer from the reduced damage output. For those in favor of Intimidate, I'd like to see an explanation as to why Malaconda should have access to such a flexible and powerful ability, as well a comprehensive show of damage calcs detailing what matchup's Intimidate directly impacts. As for the other defense raising ability, Stamina, I'm even more wary of the effects it may have on Malaconda. Unlike Intimidate, Stamina has the ability to snowball to the point where Malaconda can win matchups it has no right winning. The argument for it not being overly powerful is centered around Malaconda having to take a hit before it gets the buff, but considering how Malaconda is only going to be switching into Pokemon it knows it can take a hit from, I don't see how that point holds up. Furthermore, Malaconda is undoubtedly going to take at least one attack each game, and as long as it is not OHKOed, Stamina will have the ability to proc at least once, if not more. A more comprehensive display of damage calcs are needed to show how Stamina does overshadow Harvest and as to what extent it lessens the ability for Pokemon to check break through Malaconda.

The next two abilities are those that I believe have been the center of discussion so far. Starting with the hottest topic in this thread, Regenorator is a powerful ability that I believe will completely overshadow Harvest on any relevant Malaconda set. A couple posters have claimed that Regenorator will not be more impactful than Harvest because Malaconda already has a host of recovery options. However, this line of thinking seems to be entirely forgetting that without Harvest, Malaconda will only have Synthesis for reliable recovery, so Regen will get it's full dollar worth of use on Malaconda. Those posts also seem to be missing the whole point as to why Regenorator is such a poweful ability; it gives the Pokemon free recovery just for using a basic and easily used mechanic, all without the need of spending a precious ability slot to use it. This stands in contrast to the recovery Malaconda currently has access to, which, although can heal more overall, require either a moveslot, an item slot, and a free turn to really make the most out of. As HeaL outlined, Malaconda is best when used as a specially defensive pivot that comes in, does whatever it needs to do, maybe fire off a Glare, and switches/U-turns out. Regen supports that kind of play to an extreme by giving Malaconda more freedom to switch into what it needs to without having to heal up as constantly. I think the best analogies to what I believe Regen Malaconda would end up being are Amoonguss and Tangrowth. All three of them share a common Grass-typing, Regen, and utility options. The difference between the three are primarily their typing; both Amoonguss and Tangrowth have seen their usage and viability rise and fall as the threats they check due to their typing come in and out of favour. Similarly, Malaconda would see itself as a metagame dependent answer to a specific group of Pokemon if it had access to the pivoting ability Regen provides. As a result, I'm altogether wary of Regenorator because it seems to cross that line of redefining Malaconda in order to make it "good", which is honestly something I would rather avoid if neccessary. For those advocating for Regenorator, I'd like to see more of an explanation as to why such a powerful ability is needed in favor of less powerful alternatives, or why Regenorator is not as powerful as I'm making it out to be. The other ability I want to go in depth on is Drought. I don't actually believe this ability will do much for Malaconda itself, since the only thing it synergizes with is Synthesis while making Fire-type attacks much more threatening. However, Drought itself is an incredibly powerful ability, to the point where it enables an entire archetype built around abusing it. On Sun teams, Malaconda would be a powerful setter along with Char Y, as it adds another layer of consistency to the archetype without stacking another SR weak Pokemon. In fact, Malaconda would be able to be the go to spinner for Sun teams. Because Drought would be dominant on Sun teams, and that secondary setter for Sun is virtually an unoccupied niche, Drought would greatly overshadow any niche Harvest woud, and in that sense, Drought would indirectly overshadow Harvest. Additionally, Drought shares a similarity to Regen in that they both redefine Malaconda to a significant degree in order to boost it's viability. I'd like the supporters for Drought to offer more of an explanation as to why we need to redefine Malaconda to such a degree, and how such a change would be in line with Malaconda's identity.

I'd also like to briefly address some other abilities people have brought up. First off, Natural Cure is directly outclassed by Lum and Chesto Berry + Rest. Toxic, poison, and burn all take several turns to inflict anything more than chip damage, which would give Harvest enough time to proc and remove the status if the berry was already eaten. Natural Cure sets would run Synthesis anyways, so it's not like Rest is burning up a moveslot Natural Cure would grant. As such, the only real benefit Natural Cure provides is a way to remove burn on offensive sets, in which case an offensive ability such as Strong Jaws would most likely be more effective. An explanation as to how Natural Cure is not outclassed by Malaconda's current options is needed.

Sap Sipper seems underwhelming as well, since Malaconda has no trouble tanking special Grass-type moves, in which case it would mainly benefit Malaconda from absorbing physical Grass-type attacks. Even then, the most common physical users of Grass coverage and moves all have a way to get around it. Tapu Bulu commonly runs Superpower, Kartana runs Sacred Sword, Mega Crucibelle is Mega Crucibelle, etc. All together Sap Sipper seems to be an underwhelming ability that I would like to see more of a discussion on what matchups it actually has a positive effect on.

Rough Skin/Iron Barbs seem problematic to me due to their ability to harshly punish the opponent for targeting Malaconda's weakness. It can be argued that the weak defense stat balances the ability, but it allows Malaconda to make it much more awkward for the opponent. For example, Rough Skin + Helmet can deal 50% damage to the opponent as long as they only 2HKO Malaconda and use contact moves. Throw in Synthesis and the opponent is forced to overwhelm Malconda or suffer from an undue amount of chip damage. I'd like to see an explanation as to why these abilities should be allowed to interfere with Malaconda's counterplay to the extent that they do.

Strong Jaw is a unique option people have proposed, as it is the only proposed ability that is uniquely offensive. Furthermore, it would also require us to commit to giving Malaconda the relevant boosted moves in order to see any mileage from this ability. While I think an ability that aims to improve Malaconda's more offensive sets could work given how offensive Malaconda sets are generally inferior to pivot sets, the overall lack of calcs worries me. I'd need to see some actual calculations and matchup analysis before I can really put any sort of support behind this ability.

Lastly, I'd like to remind everyone that the focus of this discuss is on abilities and not moves. Please do not start posting potential sets with new move additions yet, as doing so will just further derail this discussion and make drag this on. I'd also like to encourage everyone to get down to the nitty gritty and do some actual damage calcs and analyzed what matchups your proposed ability affects. Those calcs can serve as some very convincing evidence for your arguments, and I'm surprised we haven't seen many of them.

With all that said, I'd like to end this post with some guiding questions for all of you. Given the state of discussion, I'd like us to focus on the impact of the abilities people have proposed and how they will affect Malaconda in both the sets it runs and the matchups it has. Ideally, posters should be able to show how their ability will not be too much for Malaconda, and how it will not do so little as to be a trumped up flavour ability.

  • What do we want Malaconda's role to be?
  • What effect does your proposed ability have on Malaconda's set, matchups, roles, and viability?
  • How much of an impact do you believe your ability has overall? Why do you believe that level of impact is health for Malaconda?
  • Does your ability overshadow Harvest or otherwise redefine some aspect of Malaconda's usage? If it does, why do you believe that is acceptable?
  • Does your ability have a noticeable effect on Malaconda? If it does not, why do you believe Malaconda should receive such a low impact ability?
  • If you do not believe Malaconda needs a new competitive ability, please state you reasoning for us. NCA will be an option on the poll, so don't dismiss your apprehension just because of how eager everyone else is.
  • If you believe a proposed ability does not meet the standards you believe Malaconda has, please explain why in context of the questions asked above.
 
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LucarioOfLegends

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A possibility for an ability that just sort of helps out Malaconda is Filter.

What I believe Malaconda should be is a special tank with multiple utility options, and a solid niche in the move U-turn, which Mollux and Chansey don't have. However, a major letdown to this role is Malaconda's typing, which shows an astounding 7 weaknesses including Fairy, Flying, Fighting, Fire, Ice, Poison, and most importantly Bug. Filter adresses this to an extent without being to incredibly powerful. It improves Malaconda's overall bulk, as it now can take resisted hit moderately better, but doesn't totally change matchups with Pokemon that threaten it. Tapu Koko's U-turn is still very much a 2HKO, while Syclant and Colossoil still destroy it mercilessly with their respective bug moves. Nothing is changed from Landorus-T, and offensive Tomo still can clearly dent it with a 2HKO. What it does is it improves its matchup against a good number of Pokemon in CAP, which greatly help its longevity and ability to execute its role. The big three of CAP still greatly hurt it, but now can take super effective hits a bit better. This however comes at a cost: its harder to recover off the damage. Without Harvest, Malaconda has to rely on Leftovers and Synthesis to heal off its damage it has taken. Leftovers is extremely gradual, meaning it only really affects damage RNG. Synthesis can heal bigger parts at one time, but is very much hampered by Malaconda's molasses Speed stat. This means that although it takes less damage from these attacks, it still has to endure supereffective hits to be able to heal in most cases by an amount that can easily be knocked off. While it would certainly would overshadow Filter to some degree, the passive chunks of healing that Malaconda could get from Harvest is hard to part from, as would still be seen on sets. Another thing to note is that this does not help against neutral and physical hits, meaning that its lackluster defense would still be there to capitalize on for Steel type attacks, something that is much harder to deal with without recovery.


Credit to nv for introducing the positive aspects of this ability to me, and helping with some calcs.

Will add calcs later.
 
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I really agree with Lucario here.


Ye malaconda should be this great bulky pivot with utility magic and decent attack for a wall.
Filter has all my support. It adresses the flaws most of the people are complaining about, even without overshadowing harvest. But can I add Effect spore into the ring. It allows people to be punished when using a contact move, something to help it with it's issue of having bad defense (something ruining its health for the meta), yer it won't overshadow harvest one bit because you will be very relliant on synthesis as you won't have the passive recovery of the sitrus harvest.

Calcs coming one day
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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I support Speed Boost. It would change Malaconda's standard set EVs thusly:

252 HP / 136 Atk / 60 SpD / 60 Spe
Item Choice would primarily be Leftovers as Malaconda is still quite bulky.

Why these Atk EVs?
136 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 386-456 (94.8 - 112%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
KOs after SR or Flame Orb damage.
  • What do we want Malaconda's role to be?
Malaconda should be able to pivot in and out of battle and be able to reliably debuff opponents or remove hazards.
  • What effect does your proposed ability have on Malaconda's set, matchups, roles, and viability?
Malaconda with Speed Boost places a small amount of EVs in Speed (and significant but not maximum in Attack) in order to get the drop on faster opponents, at the expense of a decent potion of its still massive special bulk. It otherwise plays entirely the same, save it will run it's own U-turn more often to pivot out.
Set structure is most likely to look like U-turn/Glare/STAB/Utility.
  • How much of an impact do you believe your ability has overall? Why do you believe that level of impact is health for Malaconda?
Malaconda is an excellent pivot when it comes in on a move it resists. With just 60 Spe EVs Malaconda at +1 Spe has 241 Spe, enough to outrun standard 56 Spe SubCoil Zygarde and hit it with a Knock Off, Glare, or other support move. Unlike other Pokemon with Speed Boost, Malaconda has almost zero viability trying to run a Choice Band or Life Orb set effectively, as even at +1 it is significantly slower than standard threats and at +2 every Scarf Pokemon still outspeeds it and would do massive damage or outright KO with U-turn if Mala is not defensively invested.
  • Does your ability overshadow Harvest or otherwise redefine some aspect of Malaconda's usage? If it does, why do you believe that is acceptable?
What Speed Boost does is provide a backstop to common counters by lowering their ability to switch in unharmed. Scarf Colossoil is largely unharmed by Speed Boost but AV Colossoil is, and Flame Orb is if Malaconda pivots in on something else and Malaconda gets a second speed boost. Most of Malaconda's other uninvested Speed answers like Mollux and Pyroak are all outrun at +1.
  • Does your ability have a noticeable effect on Malaconda? If it does not, why do you believe Malaconda should receive such a low impact ability?
Speed Boost is definitely noticable, and pushes many of its checks into their more offensive sets which can outrun Malaconda at +1. This creates more pressure for their other Pokemon to run slower, defensive sets that the Harvest Malaconda set is better at capitalizing on. When you see Malaconda in Team Preview you will need to assess or scout whether it is "fast" Malaconda (SB Leftovers) or "bulky" Malaconda (Harvest Berry). Speed Boost changes how Malaconda plays its role but it doesn't change its role. It's still a support pivot with substantial bulk and healing abilities.
  • If you believe a proposed ability does not meet the standards you believe Malaconda has, please explain why in context of the questions asked above.
Mostly what I find in trying to balance these abilities is that some abilities are blatantly better than Harvest and some of them are blatantly inferior. Harvest is largely a middle ground because its effect when utilized properly is incredibly strong, but in many instances it can't be utilized properly. Harvest Malaconda can be a *win condition* if opponents that can't 2HKO or 3HKO it are removed, especially the Harvest ChestoRest set which isn't even susceptible to Toxic weardown. Abilities like Regenerator go way too far in trying to replicate Harvest's healing effects whereas Filter and other abilities miss Malaconda's point that it is supposed to pivot, weaken opponents, and then come in to clean late game when its bulk can't be overcome. So Malaconda really isn't supposed to be taking a lot of Early and Mid-Game hits unless it can shrug them off before you get to the cleaning phaze, and its hard to find a better ability than Harvest for that purpose. Harvest and Speed Boost allow Malaconda to fulfill its role in different ways, and the combination of the two sets should significantly affect Malaconda's viability without changing its role.
 
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I promised some Calc's for Stamina, and here are some.

The problem with Mala is that they are defensively poor - one of the worst typings in the meta for defense; 4x Bug, and 2x Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Flying, Ice and Poison, (all very popular) and resistances against Dark, Electric, Ghost, Grass, Ground and Water (less so, and even Mon of those types have coverage elsewhere in one of the aforementioned). Bug is very popular, mostly due to the prevalence of U-Turn; a BP70 Move that hits for 4x damage, against Defence, which is absolutely horrific on Mala, as are Fairy, Poison and Fire because of aforementioned Fairy's, Fighting (special mention to Buzzwole for both), with Flying and Ice working into a trifecta and prevalence due to the presence of mon's like Syclant.

Look at Fidgit. This is possibly the least offensive pokemon in the game. I'm not using it as an example of what may happen in game - neither mon can do anything to the other, but I'm merely using Mr. Gadget as an example - it's a utility Pokemon using U-Turn as a variable switch move, not to deal damage. I've also put up a theoretical 252/252 split for Mala, to show what it would look like if it invested in defence and HP to the detriment of its Attack or SpD.

0- Atk Fidgit U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 220-260 (50.6 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Fidgit U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 156-188 (35.9 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Obviously, U-Turn is a move which is 4x SE vs Mala, but even non-STAB U-Turn on an uninvested Fidgit puts Mala in dangerous territory, and gives it only one option; heal, or switch, because U-Turn almost certainly puts someone on the field who puts Mala out of action.

Even on a Mirror Match, Malaconda gets taken out - using both uninvested.

0 Atk Malaconda U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 304-360 (70 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Malaconda U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 220-260 (50.6 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I suggest Stamina because it doesn't affect its match ups as a SpD heavy mon. It was designed to have those SpD stats, and had that typing specifically, with all the weakness and limitations that brings, and I think we should continue to make use of those. Regenerator flat out invalidates Harvest as an ability, when you consider that it's primarily going to be making use of its healing abilities - either Rest/Lum while in Sun, or straight up Sitrus. It's literally free healing, letting Mala take a free item and have more flexibility with its movesets. I don't endorse this. Chlorophyll is a nice idea, but that makes it less of a defensive pivot, and still requires Sun, which is entirely shut down down by anything bringing any sort of weather that's not Sun, and makes it even weaker to fast physical offense types; best case Scenario of 458 Speed Tier leaves it below a +1 Mega-Charizard X, +1 Mega Crucibelle, etc; and without Drought, you're burning a Move Slot and a turn, while taking Drought means it can't make use of that speed boost from Chlorophyll or its increased damage unless it gets Solar Blade, which I'm not sure I can even suggest for flavour reasons.Let's talk the theory of what Malaconda currently does - it switches/free switches into a match, with something like U-Turn, Volt Switch, or previously Baton Pass (Dry or otherwise), and takes a special hit it resists, or doesn't come in at all, because it's slow speed means that all someone needs to do is switch into any mon with U-Turn, or a SE Physical Attack, and Mala has to switch out again, or die, completely removing any momentum gains you may want to get out of it.

With Stamina, Mala can switch into an attack that they resist, which increases the team dynamic with a fast Volt Switch or U-Turn, and take a resisted hit, like a Choice'd Surf/Hydro Pump/Power Gem from Volkraken (236 SpD or better forces such a Specs Volkraken to only 5HKO with Gem/Hydro). This gives Mala a +1, and a choice of whether to heal up on the free switch, or whether to deal damage to the incoming mon.

Lets use Colossoil here - as a Ground type, it should be prime meat for Mala, but it needs to seriously invest in its attack power, or have some sort of boosting move added to it later on in the process to be able to do so.

0 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 338-398 (83 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
192 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 408-480 (100.2 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 506-596 (124.3 - 146.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Colossoil currently just clicks U-Turn, and Malaconda dies.
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 724-856 (166.8 - 197.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 520-612 (119.8 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 484-572 (111.5 - 131.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 348-412 (80.1 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. +1 168 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 348-412 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As you can see, a Malaconda here needs to have both the +1 and at least 420 EV's invested into HP and Def to make them capable of withstanding a single U-Turn, meaning that to be able to take a U-Turn, they not only need to be at full health, but still cannot guarantee OHKO Colossoil if it clicked Power Whip on the switch (88 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 368-434 (90.4 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO).

If Mala were to be at +2, from the move that many are obviously going to be requesting in a later addition, or say, for some chance, that it has taken 2 hits inexplicably,

252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. +2 168 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 260-308 (62.9 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil U-turn vs. +2 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 260-308 (59.9 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mala still needs to be at full health to stand a chance of withstanding it.

Lets use another one of the best counters to Malaconda in the game, and see how high we can push it - Buzzwole. I typically use it Banded.

252 Atk Choice Band Buzzwole Superpower vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 444-524 (102.3 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Buzzwole Leech Life vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 592-700 (136.4 - 161.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Buzzwole just needs to switch in, and Mala can have been in as long enough to get +3, and unless Mala is at full health and with a full investment into HP/Def, it's going to die to a Buzzwoles Leech Life.
252 Atk Choice Band Buzzwole Leech Life vs. +3 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 360-424 (82.9 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Buzzwole Leech Life vs. +3 168 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 360-424 (87.1 - 102.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Mala can't do anything in return
88 Atk Malaconda Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 53-63 (14.9 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO

Cawmadore Calcs
88 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cawmodore: 61-73 (25.2 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Malaconda Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cawmodore: 57-67 (23.5 - 27.6%) -- 76.5% chance to 4HKO
+6 252 Atk Cawmodore Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. +1 168 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 408-482 (98.7 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+6 252 Atk Cawmodore Drain Punch vs. +1 168 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 372-438 (90 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+6 252 Atk Cawmodore Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 408-482 (94 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+6 252 Atk Cawmodore Drain Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 372-438 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Mega Charizard-X Calcs
252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Malaconda: 368-434 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

The only thing that I have found which may prove broken is its interaction with Icicle Spear which normally would beat it - but given that Icicle Spear is pretty much limited to Mamoswine and Cloyster in CAP, and maybe added to something like Syclant later on, but Syclant and Mamoswine have much better Ice type attacks, the only one who really loses out is Cloyster, getting slapped hard by Power Whip and being unable to 2HKO IIRC. Also, without Moonlight, Revenankh would struggle unless it already had some Bulk Ups in place - Mala still cannot switch into a Drain Punch without the +1 already.

And despite all of the above, there are quite a few options for (p)hazers in CAP; Tomohawk, Toxapex, Mirror Malaconda, Dragonite, Goodra, Mega Steelix, Incineroar, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Cyclohm etc, all of which can reasonably resist Malaconda, and either Haze, Phase, or just straight up attack its special, such as Tomohawk being able to 2HKO it with Hurricane.

TL;DR - Mala needs to be at full health to make use of Stamina, because its defenses are that poor that even at +1, the majority of its counters can 2HKO.

Edit - Had this WIP before your post last night, cbrevan, will update later today to address questions

  • What do we want Malaconda's role to be?
  • With Malaconda's special defense value, it serves as an okay special wall, but it lacks the ability to properly pressure the opponent in the way that Jellicent, or Goodra can. With M-Venusaur, Tangrowth and Ferrothorn able to wall much better, often with better sustain and offense to pressure certain actions, Malaconda just cannot. Even as a defensive pivot, Malaconda suffers from having the opponent being able to switch to a pokemon with as ubiquitous-a-move as U-Turn, and just flat out hurt it, and badly, losing any momentum you may have from the switch.
  • What effect does your proposed ability have on Malaconda's set, matchups, roles, and viability?
  • I believe I have gone in depth above. I am more than happy to do some more calcs based on any questions you may have. In short, Mala cannot really abuse the defense without an opponent messing up. It turns utility moves used to freely switch into something that may improve Malaconda unless they have adequately invested into the offense. It makes Mala less of a liability, at the risk of Skill-link and other Multi-hit move users (especially Cloyster) not being able to just freely click attack.
  • How much of an impact do you believe your ability has overall? Why do you believe that level of impact is health for Malaconda?
  • I believe that this ability gives Malaconda another option for an opponent to consider when they see it on the team. Is it the same old Special wall with Harvest Healing (through Sitrus/ChestoResto) which can be got rid of by simply throwing out a mon with U-Turn, or is it something which may be more difficult later on? I certainly believe this to be healthy. Mala is really in no way, shape or form able to appropriately operate in the current game without the inevitable wish that you'd taken something more like Tangrowth, or M-Venusaur which are more versatile.
  • Does your ability overshadow Harvest or otherwise redefine some aspect of Malaconda's usage? If it does, why do you believe that is acceptable?
  • A bit of yes, and a bit of no. I certainly believe that this ability is something that's going to encourage Malaconda to be taken whereas it's not already, but being able to buff yourself after taking damage on such an already vulnerable mon does not make it a more viable option for someone who wants a highly sustainable Special Wall.
  • Does your ability have a noticeable effect on Malaconda? If it does not, why do you believe Malaconda should receive such a low impact ability?
  • I believe it has a high enough impact to make it a competitive, but not overshadowing option.
  • If you do not believe Malaconda needs a new competitive ability, please state you reasoning for us. NCA will be an option on the poll, so don't dismiss your apprehension just because of how eager everyone else is.
  • The mechanics join together nicely, but they are missing something, that came from the core Gen V game mechanics, which cannot be fixed by simply upgrading its movepool.
 
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cbrevan

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I'm sorry, but I don't see how Speed Boost is an option we should even be considering for Malaconda. While it is argued that Speed Boost would not be overpowered because Malaconda not able to outspeed every single Pokemon in the metagame after a single boost, this line of thinking ignores that even just a simple +1 boost is enough to limit the amount of counterplay available to the opponent. That single boost allows Malaconda to outspeed and Glare checks that would otherwise handle Malaconda easily, provided they didn't directly switch into Glare. Because of this, the opponent is pressured into switching in their status absorber or hard switch/pivot into their faster answer, which can be easily taken advantage of through U-turn and Pursuit. More ever, if Malaconda does happen to get two boosts, the opponent is forced to send in the scarfer they hopefully have in order to revenge kill it cleanly, and every boost after that makes it progressively harder to answer without risking a paralysis. All of this isn't even taking into account Malaconda's offensive ability, which would be greatly boosted by Speed Boost, even if it remains underwhelming overall. Just from a purely competitive standpoint, I think this ability goes far beyond the line than anything else that has been suggested in this thread. In fact, the notion that Regenorator is somehow less of an offender than Speed Boost is simply beyond me. Unlike Regenorator, we are directly addressing one of the factors that has held Malaconda back by allowing it free and essentially unlimited speed boosts. If Speed Boost was an option on Malaconda, it would definitely see more usage than Harvest because speed is such an important factor when it comes to matchups. Adding on to this, Speed Boost spits right in the face of any sort of identity Malaconda has going for it, as it has never been a fast Pokemon, nor was it ever designed to be. We might as well just buff it's speed stat by 20 points if we give it this ability. Honestly, I believe this ability provides a buff that is uncalled for, in both it's competitive impact and what it does to the way Malaconda would be played, and as such, I'd prefer if we spent our time discussing more realistic and less over the top options.

As for Filter, I'd like to see some calcs on what matchups it has an impact on, so we can better evaluate how much of an impact it will have. You mention that it helps against a large number of Pokemon, so let's see the actual proof behind that claim.
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
Ah sorry. Here are some calcs for Filter

What is nice about Filter is that it allows Malaconda to run different EV spreads to account for different threats while maintaining the same level of bulk specially when hit with superffective attacks. I'll be going over a few of them over the course of this. However, each of these spreads has their strengths and weaknesses, as certain investment is crucial to survivability and the ability to heal back the damage.

To begin, Malaconda can run an EV spread similar to its current one, with the major change being its HP is optimized to take as little damage from Stealth Rocks as possible. This allows it to maximize its special bulk, take neutral and resisted hits better, and helps against some particularly troublesome specially, such as Plasmanta and Volkraken.

252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 244-291 (56.3 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 183-218 (42.2 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 222-264 (51.2 - 60.9%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 166-198 (38.3 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 221-265 (51 - 61.2%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 166-199 (38.3 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Aura Sphere is a 3HKO under any circumstance, if carried)

252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 196-232 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 147-174 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 33.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Malaconda: 282-332 (65.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers Recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Malaconda: 211-249 (48.7 - 57.5%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

In most cases, Filter Malaconda forces 3HKOs. This means that it can knock off their items and essentially wall these mons with its special bulk. Of course, the major issue with this spread is that it does not invest any for physical attacks, meaning that it is still wiped by the majority of supereffective physical attacks from U-turn, Tapu Bulu, Arghonaut, Crucibelle, Tapu Koko, and Colossoil, among others.


Another option is to run Maximum Defense Investment to patch up the Defense stat a bit, and can survive some superffective hits from physical threats much better than usual.

4- Atk Tapu Koko U-turn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Filter Malaconda: 153-180 (35.3 - 41.5%) -- 71.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Filter Malaconda: 318-375 (73.4 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

220+ Atk Arghonaut Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Filter Malaconda: 184-217 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Of course, that means that it now is a bit weaker specially, and previous feat with Special investment now are not possible. Furthermore, some physical threats can still heavily check Malaconda with supereffective moves, such as Colossoil and Mega Scizor.


What these calcs imply is that Malaconda can take far more hits specially, and can fix the typing issue to an extent. This would make it a much more formidable special wall, as you can't just come in, hit it with a special attack, and expect it to die. However, it is still very much challenged by Bug types such as Mega Scizor, Syclant, and Aurumoth, and its large pool of weaknesses accompanied by its low defense means that it will still be hit hard by supeffective attacks from Bulu, Colossoil, Arghonaut, and Crucibelle. Its low speed does no favors as well, as it would now have to endure attacks to be able to heal efficiently, unlike the convient healing of Harvest. With all of these in mind, I think that Filter does not overshadow Harvest. If it does, Harvest would still hold a niche for the use of reliable recovery through Berry regeneration, and we could even see a Assault Vest set for it.
 
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cbrevan

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Since I've caught up on reading the latest posts in this thread, I'll be presenting my thoughts on the following three abilities, Stamina, Filter, and Grassy Surge.

Starting with Stamina, I'd like to start by saying that I like the overall quality of the post presented by Hesh Kadesh. However, I believe Hesh Kadesh has undersold the impact Stamina has through the subject of his damage calcs. Simply put, the calcs presented do not give a full picture on how powerful Stamina may be, because the calcs presented represent the worst case scenarios for Malconda. Adamant Guts Colossoil, Buzzwole, Belly Drum boosted Cawmodore, and Charizhard X are by now means Pokemon anyone was expecting Stamina to help against. What I'm most concerned with is how Stamina will affect the matchups where it will have an actual impact, that is to say, how much of a difference does those defense boosts create when Malaconda is up against a softer check or even a neutral matchup? I should also point out that the actual list of viable hazers/phazers in CAP is much smaller than the one Hesh Kadesh listed; they are mainly Tomohawk, Toxapex, Skarmory, Cyclohm, and Pyroak, and definetly not Goodra, Incineroar, and Mega Steelix. Overall, I'm still wary about this ability because it's impact on Malaconda's matchups have not been explored fully, and because of how powerful of an effect Stamina has, I cannot consider slating it until it can be definitely proven to be within the power ranges we're looking for.

Moving on to Filter, I believe LucarioofLegends has done a good job in showing how Filter gives Malaconda greaty flexibility in what it can run. I'm glad damage calcs were included and that they help show how Filter has an impact on it, but I believe the 252/252 Def set in particular could use a larger body of calcs to better illustrate how powerful or weak Filter is on the defensive side. Overall, I think this ability has a strong shot at reaching the slate, provided that a good argument as to why Malaconda should become significantly bulkier overall is presented.
 
If we aren't completely devoted to keeping Malaconda working in the sun, then why not go in a more lateral direction and give it Overcoat? This lets Malaconda fit onto Sand teams where it can handle the often Special Water and Grass type attacks aimed at the Rock and/or Ground types on the team. It would be an ability that shouldn't be overpowered, since it really just prevents weather chip damage, and doesn't compete with Harvest, since it performs an entirely different function for a different style of team.
 

snake

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If we aren't completely devoted to keeping Malaconda working in the sun, then why not go in a more lateral direction and give it Overcoat? This lets Malaconda fit onto Sand teams where it can handle the often Special Water and Grass type attacks aimed at the Rock and/or Ground types on the team. It would be an ability that shouldn't be overpowered, since it really just prevents weather chip damage, and doesn't compete with Harvest, since it performs an entirely different function for a different style of team.
Synthesis is weakened in Rain and Sand, which is why Harvest, despite working only 50% of the time, is useful since Malaconda doesn't have access to Recover or Slack Off. Because of the weakened Synthesis, you're better off running something like Tangrowth as a bulky Grass-type since it can recover without Synthesis. Overcoat just isn't all that useful, unfortunately.
 

reachzero

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When we began this update process, we basically agreed that to "fix" every problem with every CAP is impossible, barring a major overhaul. We agreed that some CAPs might merit an overhaul, and we have already done exactly that with Voodoom and Revenankh. As we have been discussing Malaconda in this thread (and to a certain extent, Kitsunoh in its thread) we have run across the issue of scope of changes desired. Harvest is already a really good ability, and Malaconda already has essentially every move it wants, but we can't adjust stats, so we're stuck at an ability stage impasse. At this point, choosing the scope of change desired is the important point.

A major ability, like Drought or Regenerator, is an option if we're are okay with changing Malaconda to the same extent we changed Revenankh and Naviathan. Drought would provide a stable, guaranteed niche while Regenerator would greatly ease Malaconda's 4mss. I think either of these is a viable option considering the very low likelihood of either one breaking Malaconda (Regenerator is much weaker on Malaconda than, say, Kitsunoh and pretty comparable to Tangrowth). I would prefer Drought, personally, on the basis on Malaconda's established identity as a Sun team Pokemon.

The second option, to be honest, is to simply throw up our hands and give it an ability that we know will not really compete with Harvest, with the full awareness that its viability will probably hover around B-/C until dropping again with another generation of power creep. This is an acceptable option, but one we must recognise we are intentionally choosing if we choose it.

I hate Stamina even on Mudsdale, so I bet it would be pretty disgusting on Malaconda; that said, I do think a radical ability is the only thing we could give Malaconda that would actually help it.
 
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