Other Metagames Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt: Mix and Mega RMT Peak #1, 95% GXE

Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt



Teambuilding process:
When I first built the team, the recent Marshadow ban - and prior removal of double stone clause - I was running low on teams. I had some, but they were mostly just mindless Deoxys-S HO that struggles with anything packing offense-invested magearna, as the extent of my counterplay was generally clicking Mirror Coat with Deoxys-S or forcing it out with offensive Primal Groudon. Enter Highlord, who tells me about this new Pokemon he's been trying out: Gothitelle. I had previously seen how devastating Shadow Tag could be in MnM in the Marshadow metagame, but that had primarily been with Mega Gengar; this was an entirely different kettle of fish. Gothitelle could switch into the two most popular defensive Pokemon in the metagame, Support Arceus and Blissey, and remove them, thus paving the way for the sweep from any offensive Pokemon.

To start, I paired Gothitelle with Zygarde and Primal Groudon, Mix and Mega's two S-ranked Pokemon. There were obviously plenty of other options, but none that fit nearly as well. Zygarde beats most offense and balance teams once support Arceus vanishes, and is excellent at removing fast offensive threats such as Deoxys-S. Primal Groudon, meanwhile, completely dismantles almost all viable stall when paired just with Gothitelle, and thanks to the latter can often guarentee hazards as well. It also built in a check to Xerneas, which my teams are famously weak against.

Next, I added Arceus Ground, as despite beign trapped by Gothitelle it's one of the best Pokemon in the metagame. While it was stacking ground types, Zygarde would lose its upon Mega Evolution, and Primal Groudon and Arceus-Ground share no weaknesses. Arceus-Ground also offered an answer to sticky webs, meaning that they wouldn't just stay up and cause a loss.

I then had issues with offense, especially ones with Altarianite Zygarde (less vulnerable to Arceus-ground) and Tapu Lle. to solve this, I added Lunala, which gave some speed control, removed Psychic Terrain sweepers, and was only really walled by Blissey. This put a lot of pressure on Goth, but since Pursuit trapping is generally unviable its usually fine and meant that gothitelle would remain useful in more matchups. Lunala, however, made my team incredibly weak to Weavile, which brought on my last Pokemon.


Magearna could check Weavile, Geomancy Xerneas after hazards, Blissey, Tapu lele, Deoxys-S and most Calm Mind sweepers. It also acts as a nice glue, and is able to force out many defensive Pokemon and force in trappable ones like Toxapex, Arceus, and Blissey - all of which Gothitelle removes. It could also bring in my myraid of fast offensive Pokemon with Volt Switch. It just eases the need for hard predictions, as most of the pokemon that can be doubles in on Gothitelle are in turn defeated by Magearna.


The Team:


Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Rest
- Taunt
Gothitelle is quite possibly the most broken pokemon in the metagame right now, just in how easy it makes most games against anything not named hyper offense. In most matches, it's impossible to play around; either they don't use their checks to your sweepers, which is pretty much a "you win" button, or they do and they get trapped. People can run other answers to set up sweepers, but they generally don't, and for good reason as the likes of Giratina-O are easily worn down. It relies on hard switching in on forced recovers so that the foe must choose between sacrificing a key pokemon to Gothitelle, or leaving it at too low health to do its job.


Zygarde @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
While the Altarianite set is more popular, on this team it would have been far less effective; thanks to Primal Groudon, Magearna, Lunala and Arceus Ground there isn't much need for a check to opposing Zygarde, while the better primal groudon matchup - and speed - was a huge boon. Zygarde can function as a succesful revenge killer, setup sweeper, and a decent balance breaker (when paired with Goth).​


Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
While there's still dispute as to whether its the best pokemon in the metagame, Primal Groudon is certainly the most splashable, and is definitally the best Stealth Rock user as well. While it doesn't counter nearly as much with this set, it is in turn exceedingly difficult to counter, and it still checks almost everything you would want Primal Groudon to answer. Speed Creep is just at 4 to outpace people who forget any, as I felt it just wasn't worth it to try and outpace everyone when that would involve over a hundred EVs, but its definitally custimizable.


Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Recover
- Defog
- Ice Beam
Arceus-ground is the pretty much the best Primal Groudon answer in the metagame, only struggling with special sets and Toxic - neither of which are nearly as common or threatening, though they can still be dangerous. For the most part, Jolly Groudon isn't run, so the 16 spe is sufficient, but even if it were to be used the additional defense and drop in Groudon's attack would let Arceus-Ground still effectively check. Ice Beam lets it answer Zygarde and chip the likes of Yveltal, while Defog prevents hazard stack and keeps Shadow Sheild intact.​


Lunala @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Moonblast / Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
Unlike Ubers, in Mix and Mega Timid Lunala is preferred; without the speed boosting nature, Tapu Lele can outpace Lunala and make revenge killing it difficult, which is particularly annoying given Magearna's lack of Special Defense investment. The loss of power is annoying, but not insurmountable. The choice between Moonblast and Ice beam is whether you want to hit Altarianite Zygarde harder and Weavile more reliably, or if you want to better take on Pinsirite Zygarde and Arceus-Ground better.


Magearna @ Sablenite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch
- Heart Swap
Magearna runs 0 speed IVs in order to underspeed Blissey and other Magearna and slow Volt Switch out; this isn't strictly neccesary, but since Magearna doesn't really outspeed anythign important it's mostly a net positive. Maximum Special Attack EVs allow it to 3HKO max HP PDon and OHKO Deoxys-S, but special defense may be run as desired if the likes of Tapu Lele deal too much damage​

Threatlist:
Ho-Oh.
This Pokemon can switch into 2/3 of my team, and has regenerator and high powered attacks to boot. If paired with solid defog support (ie not support arceus), it can also switch in unbothered by that. My primary counterplay is to set rocks, boost up Zygarde, or switch in Arceus-Ground if it lacks Recover to force it out.

Defensive Arceus-Ghost: While rare, this gives me serious issues, as I have no real answer for it bar Lunala, which obviously can't switch in and must be at full health. It cannot be trapped by Gothitelle either. Arceus-Dark is similar, but there I have Magearna.

Pursuit Trapping: While mostly unviable, a select few trappers such as Alolan Muk and Weavile are occasionally used. They make playing with Gothitelle much harder.

Xurkitree: Thanks to sleep, this mon is incredibly threatening; even only Magearna can actually 1v1 it, and even then barely. Counterplay consists of taking it out with combined damage from Lunala+Zygarde, bouncing back sleep, or chipping it with entry hazards until Lunala can 1v1.



Zygarde @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Rest
- Taunt

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Recover
- Defog
- Ice Beam

Magearna @ Sablenite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch
- Heart Swap

Lunala @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge


upload_2017-10-2_19-4-34.png

Chloe. for not banning shadow tag
Highlord for introducing me to gothitelle in mnm
Leru for being cool
Eien even though Monotype isn't an OM
AG Fam: avocado Catalystic DonnotheFirst DontStealMyPenguin HunterStorm Megazard PurpleGatorade Ransei Thimo Tiksi Transcendent God Champion TylerWithNumbers Whitewash Yuga42 lotiasite
OM Peeps: motherlove Laxpras Halliday jasprose Uselesscrab GL Volkner InfernapeTropius11 Jrdn Racool
1v1 Frens: UnleashOurPassion lost heros DEG wishes Iron Crusher Baleblaze Blazikin charizard8888
Chazm for always nomming Magearna

If I didnt tag u I either forgot you or couldnt be bothered


E: Added importable
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Imma about to QT ur ass on this RMT for not tagging me

First thing I noticed about this team is the weakness to quite a few common threats namely being Kartana (either Metagrossite or Loppunite but more the former) and Pidgeotite Deoxys-S. While Zygarde and Choice Scarf Lunala can help deal with the Kartana, it can still proove to be quite a nuisance especially when its near full since nothing on your team really appreciates switching into it at all. Also, due to Magearna's lack of special defensive investment, Nasty Plot Deoxys-S can really put a burden on it as it sets up on the switchin since:

+2 76+ SpA Deoxys-Speed Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 193-228 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 259-306 (87.5 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

(Based of the Laxlapras set which is probs the best NP Deo-S set atm)

With this I propose two changes:

->
(Venusaurite)
Zapdos @ Venusaurite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Defog
- Roost
- Toxic / U-Turn

I just don't like the Ice-type weakness stacking on the team with Zygarde even though you have Magearna. With Venusaurite Zapdos, you are still able to check Pdon pretty well and can now cover Kartana and Pinsirite Entei much better as well and can even opt to provide Gothitelle even more VoltTurn support if you want to run U-Turn (which Goth really appreciates). It does leave you more open to Dual Dance Pdon, but since you have Pinsirite Zygarde + Choice Scarf Lunala already on the team, I don't think its that big of a deal (you even have a better big bird switchin too).

Next I would just make Magearna fully specially defensive with a Sassy nature. Although you have Lunala to check Tapu Lele and Gengar, it still never wants to switch into them in fear of breaking its Shadow Shield. With this change in EV spread, Magearna is better able to repeatedly switchin on the threats its supposed to check which I really feel would benefit your team greatly since the added extra power is pretty arbitrary imo.

Some calcs:
252 SpA Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 112-134 (30.7 - 36.8%) -- 67.4% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 90-106 (24.7 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Xurkitree Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Xurkitree Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 159-187 (43.6 - 51.3%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 160-189 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO


Solid team overall though, gratz on peak!
 
Imma about to QT ur ass on this RMT for not tagging me

First thing I noticed about this team is the weakness to quite a few common threats namely being Kartana (either Metagrossite or Loppunite but more the former) and Pidgeotite Deoxys-S. While Zygarde and Choice Scarf Lunala can help deal with the Kartana, it can still proove to be quite a nuisance especially when its near full since nothing on your team really appreciates switching into it at all. Also, due to Magearna's lack of special defensive investment, Nasty Plot Deoxys-S can really put a burden on it as it sets up on the switchin since:

+2 76+ SpA Deoxys-Speed Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 193-228 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 259-306 (87.5 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

(Based of the Laxlapras set which is probs the best NP Deo-S set atm)

With this I propose two changes:

->
(Venusaurite)
Zapdos @ Venusaurite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Defog
- Roost
- Toxic / U-Turn

I just don't like the Ice-type weakness stacking on the team with Zygarde even though you have Magearna. With Venusaurite Zapdos, you are still able to check Pdon pretty well and can now cover Kartana and Pinsirite Entei much better as well and can even opt to provide Gothitelle even more VoltTurn support if you want to run U-Turn (which Goth really appreciates). It does leave you more open to Dual Dance Pdon, but since you have Pinsirite Zygarde + Choice Scarf Lunala already on the team, I don't think its that big of a deal (you even have a better big bird switchin too).

Next I would just make Magearna fully specially defensive with a Sassy nature. Although you have Lunala to check Tapu Lele and Gengar, it still never wants to switch into them in fear of breaking its Shadow Shield. With this change in EV spread, Magearna is better able to repeatedly switchin on the threats its supposed to check which I really feel would benefit your team greatly since the added extra power is pretty arbitrary imo.

Some calcs:
252 SpA Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 112-134 (30.7 - 36.8%) -- 67.4% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 90-106 (24.7 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Xurkitree Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Xurkitree Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 159-187 (43.6 - 51.3%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 160-189 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO


Solid team overall though, gratz on peak!
Hey, thanks for taking tje time to rate! Unfortunately, though, I have to disagree with just about every part of it.

First off, Zapdos is by no means a check to Primal groudon or ice type; while it may have sufficed back when lava plume don was the main set, as things stand Primal groudon is a Zapdos check, not the reverse, especially since this one cant even punish rocks by switching in. It also cannot effectively check weavile, as it takes way too much on the switch in and as far as staying in to check it it has to constantly stay at high HP and hope they arent SD. It does somewhat check entei, but discharge doesn't OHKo and its 2hkoed by edge after a sacred fire burn, so thats super unreliabe there as well.

As far as special defense investment goes, it essentially only helps against that one (unoptimized, as 40+ speed would give it globally better stats) Deoxys-S set, while hurting it against all others such as the Mirror coat hazard lead set or the standard anti-speed tie max speed. It also greatly increrases teh number of times threats such as fire blast primal groudon can switch in, which is a major concern for me.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top