Metagame Automagic

Substitute and Roost don't count as setup moves in the context of "things you get to use automatically in this format", so that last set doesn't work quite so well.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
I've tested it and it works. At least on ROM.
It's a bug (pun intended).

Been messing around with some stuff and I ran into a few hiccups.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7automagic-67811 - Turn 14, Hitmonlee's Fake Out triggers automagic even though the target switched and no Flinch occurred. It doesn't seem to do that under normal circumstances, so I think the Normal Gem caused the automagic.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7automagic-67787 - Turn 3, Charizard's Flame Charge KOs Victreebel and gives it the +1 Speed but no automagic. Even though the target fainted, the secondary effect still happened, and Belly Drum should have activated that turn (rather than Turn 4 after another use of Flame Charge).

Tagging Spandan and also urkerab because I'm not sure if the codes are different on Dragon Heaven versus Rom.


Side note, Smeargle is borderline broken, even with this metagame in its infancy. Keep an eye on it + Charizard X. If you don't carry a Quagsire, Ditto, or like fifteen Fake Out users, you basically lose.
 
Been messing around with some stuff and I ran into a few hiccups.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7automagic-67811 - Turn 14, Hitmonlee's Fake Out triggers automagic even though the target switched and no Flinch occurred. It doesn't seem to do that under normal circumstances, so I think the Normal Gem caused the automagic.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7automagic-67787 - Turn 3, Charizard's Flame Charge KOs Victreebel and gives it the +1 Speed but no automagic. Even though the target fainted, the secondary effect still happened, and Belly Drum should have activated that turn (rather than Turn 4 after another use of Flame Charge).

I'm not sure if the codes are different on Dragon Heaven versus Rom.
They are, so any bugs are my fault. I think I've already fixed the second bug, but I'm going to have to think about the first bug (flinch doesn't "happen" while executing the move that causes the flinch).
 
  • Like
Reactions: EV

dhelmise

everything is embarrassing
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Social Media Head
What makes sense to me is if the secondary effect fails to activate (in this case, Flame Charge's +1 Speed) for any reason (in this case because the user is already at max Speed), automagic won't happen. It's the same idea as Scald failing to burn a target with Shield Dust or Mud Slap failing to lower a target's accuracy with Clear Body.


Spandan , Secret Power should not activate automagic if the target is already asleep.
The secondary effect still triggers for Flame Charge at +6 Speed, it just doesn't boost any higher and gives the message "[Pokemon]'s Speed won't go any higher!" instead.
 

lost heros

Meme Master
In case anyone likes glass cannons, I have a cannon here made solely of glass.

Xurkitree @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charge Beam
- Tail Glow
- Charge
- Calm Mind

So the idea here is to hit charge beam. If you get the 70% chance, you can raise your special attack to +5 in one turn and sp. def to +2 and increase your next charge beam. You could change Charge Beam to Discharge or Thunder which have more power but less likelihood of automagic trigger. (They also only raise to +4 instead of +5). Beast Boost is also pretty useless and this thing gets hard walled by ground types.

So if you wanna take out ground types but don't want to hit more than one move, try this other glass cannon.
Manaphy @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Tail Glow
- Acid Armor

Raises special attack to +4, special defense to +1, and defense to +2 all on one 30% burn.
 
Xurkitree @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charge Beam
- Tail Glow
- Charge
- Calm Mind

Manaphy @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Tail Glow
- Acid Armor
Storm Drain Gastrodon and Water Absorb Seismitoad say hi :P
 
Hawlucha @ Red Card
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Swords Dance
- Agility
- Acrobatics

I've been having great success with this set. Especially when I pair it with smeargle. It doesn't necessarily need any evs in speed thanks to agility. I invest in HP to at least try and tank one hit to activate Acrobatics. I use mold breaker for those pesky Unaware pokes, mainly clefable, quag, and pyuk. Any feed back?
 
Snatch? Predicting it is much easier now and it should technically work because the moves are actually used. It would allow you to prevent the opposition from setting up while setting up on your own, which can be nice for things which don't have good set-up moves or want to save moveslots for coverage. Also, it can steal momentum.

Also, how about Trick Room? It can heavily cripple speed bosters.
 
Does Snatch work if they don't use an actual status move? Flame Charge isn't a snatchable move, I think, so it should fail since Charizard X isn't actually using SD or Dragon Dance on a given turn, but the OM's function is to activate those moves if they're in Charizard's set if it uses a move and the secondary effect activates.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
Does Snatch work if they don't use an actual status move? Flame Charge isn't a snatchable move, I think, so it should fail since Charizard X isn't actually using SD or Dragon Dance on a given turn, but the OM's function is to activate those moves if they're in Charizard's set if it uses a move and the secondary effect activates.
That's a good question and I was thinking about that too. I *think* that the Snatcher uses the move with priority, and any self-targeting moves that occur on the field that turn are snatched, so potentially it can steal a Swords Dance / Dragon Dance / Belly Drum from Charizard after Flame Charge triggers them. We'll have to test it, but if that makes sense to the coders I'd like to see it be part of the mechanics.

Spandan ?
 
That's a good question and I was thinking about that too. I *think* that the Snatcher uses the move with priority, and any self-targeting moves that occur on the field that turn are snatched, so potentially it can steal a Swords Dance / Dragon Dance / Belly Drum from Charizard after Flame Charge triggers them. We'll have to test it, but if that makes sense to the coders I'd like to see it be part of the mechanics.

Spandan ?
At the moment, the user only steals one move using Snatch (if charizard uses flame charge, and has DDance and Belly Drum in its moveset, it will only steal the first one used by the mon, DDance in this case). Should it steal all of the setup moves that the opponent tries to use?
 
  • Like
Reactions: EV

EV

Banned deucer.
At the moment, the user only steals one move using Snatch (if charizard uses flame charge, and has DDance and Belly Drum in its moveset, it will only steal the first one used by the mon, DDance in this case). Should it steal all of the setup moves that the opponent tries to use?
No, one is fine. According to the move's description, it steals the first Snatchable move but not every move.

Same goes for Copy Cat, Mirror Move*, Encore, and any other similar moves. They should target the last move used. If anyone can think of more examples, post them here and I'll collect them all in the faq.

*Only copies moves that targeted the user. So against Charizard, Mirror Move will copy Flame Charge, not Dragon Dance.
 
So I just glanced at this and I'm surprised something hasn't been mentioned: Mud-Slap. Normally its pretty bad since the opponent can simply switch and it does craptacular damage but... it doesn't quite work like that here. Take something like...

Espeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mud-Slap
- Calm Mind
- Agility
- Stored Power

Every Mud-Slap gets your Stored Power gets four boosts to work off of, all in one turn, all the while making it harder for your opponent to hit you back. Synchronize dissuades opponents from statusing Espeon as well, making it even easier. This set probably isn't optimal since it took me longer to get on Showdown and make an importable for it than it too to invent it, but it's just an idea.

Mud-Slap has a very wide distribution, being practically everything that existed in Gen IV, and, on paper, acts like a pseudo-evasion for this meta. Heck, worried about fliers? Try it on something like Calm Mind Raikou.
 
Here's a team I made. There isn't a great deal of synergy, so it's more of a collection of sets.

Fluffy (Volcarona) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Struggle Bug
- Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance

Pretty standard. Struggle Bug over Bug Buzz for the guaranteed Quiver Dance.

Santiago (Krookodile) (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulldoze
- Power Trip
- Bulk Up
- Hone Claws

Bulldoze makes you "faster" and greatly powers up Power Trip. Moxie powers it up even more, and Salac Berry makes you faster (for real this time). Walled by Togekiss.

Pickle (Pyukumuku) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Psych Up
- Baton Pass
- Recover
- Toxic
Designed to safely copy the opponent's and pass them off to a teammate. The reason it's Careful instead of Calm with 0 Attack IVs is in case you end up in a last-mon situation against a Steel or Poison type, so that Struggle might do some significant damage (it's likely you'll be at +6).

Alfil (Bisharp) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish

Basic Double Dance. Inner Focus over Defiant because of how powerful Fake Out and flinching in general is in this meta.


Nyx (Weavile) (F) @ King's Rock
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Beat Up
- Fake Out
- Swords Dance
- Agility

If the opponent doesn't have any priority, this thing will wipe the floor with them, provided that you lead with it.

Indiana Jones (Heatmor) (M) @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Fire Lash
- Curse
- Amnesia
- Recycle

I'll be honest, I just wanted an excuse to mess around with Fire Lash. Anyway, each time you use Fire Lash, you get stronger and bulkier.
 

EV

Banned deucer.

Automagic has had time to firm now and a few key strategies have developed into the metagame. We all know it's a setup-heavy metagame, but it's unique in that Automagic favors weaker moves with high chances to trigger effects (Fake Out, Rock Tomb, Icy Wind) and dual- and mono-attacking. Here's an example of a "traditional" double-setup Automagic set:

- Trigger
- Setup #1
- Setup #2
- Secondary trigger / coverage​

To use one of the best Pokemon in the metagame as an example, here's how it looks on Mega Charizard X:


- Flame Charge
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake / Dragon Claw​

Now here's an example of a "traditional" mono-attacking set:

- Trigger (is STAB when the fourth slot isn't)
- Setup #1
- Setup #2
- Setup #3 / Main STAB attack​

And here's how it looks on a common mono-attacking Pokemon, Xurkitree:

@

- Charge Beam
- Tail Glow
- Charge
- Calm Mind​

As common as mono-attacking sets are, in this post I want to focus on Electric-types in particular. Electric seems like an odd selection for mono-attacking, as mono-attackers don't want any type immunity holding them back. The opponent can send in a Ground-type and halt your sweep on a dime. Sad! However, Electric Pokemon in Automagic have an incredibly powerful tool at their disposal that makes the risk worth it: Charge. The move Charge grants a +1 Special Defense boost to the attacker and also doubles the power of any Electric moves the following turn. Couple that boost with common setup moves on Electric-types such as Nasty Plot and you have a real powerhouse on your hands.

Let's look at some more examples!


- Charge Beam
- Calm Mind
- Charge
- Work Up
or
- Charge Beam
- Agility
- Charge
- Electro Ball

In the first example, Tapu Koko is boosting its stats to +3 Special Attack / +2 Special Defense when Charge Beam activates. Charge then doubles the power of Charge Beam the following turn on top of Electric Terrain's 50% boost. In the second example, Tapu Koko is boosting to +1 Special Attack / +1 Special Defense / +2 Speed, powering up Electro Ball to its peak of 150 bp (hopefully). The second set cannot snowball, however, but it makes Tapu Koko harder to revenge kill.


- Charge Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
- Charge

Fairly straightforward this one. A successful trigger grants Thundurus +3 Special Attack / +1 Special Defense / +2 Speed. Note that Thundurus can also run an Electro Ball set, but it won't hit as hard as Tapu Koko's.


- Fake Out
- Nasty Plot
- Charge
- Thunderbolt

Stacking Electric attackers on a single team is not unheard of, as they can easily overpower the opponent once their Ground-type has been KO'd. Alola Raichu is a common partner with Tapu Koko for obvious reasons. With the +2 Speed already built into Surge Surfer, Raichu doesn't need to dedicate a moveslot to Agility. Here's the basics of the set: Fake Out triggers the +2 Special Attack / +1 Special Defense and activates Charge. Next turn, you activate your Z-crystal and use Stoked Sparksurfer, which also counts as a trigger thanks to the paralysis (unless the target faints). It's a two-turn nuke and snowball all wrapped into one!


- Rock Tomb
- Charge
- Rock Polish
- Return

Here's a non-mono physical application of the Charge strategy, albeit it's not as effective in the long-run but it's slick as hell. Use Rock Tomb to trigger Charge and Rock Polish, and next turn pummel the foe with a Galvanized and Charge-boosted Return. Kablooey! A perk to using Alolan Golem is its resistance to Fake Out and high Defense.


Any other Electric-based strategies you can think of? Share them below!
 

anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Ampharos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charge Beam
- Cotton Guard
- Agility
- Charge
This can get really bulky, provided that it lives the first hit.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware / Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charge Beam
- Cosmic Power
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast / Stored Power / Soft-Boiled
Not sure if this counts, but if it does, then GG.

Mew @ Leftovers / Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charge Beam
- Rock Polish
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic / Psyshock
Does Genesis Supernova count as an effect? Because if it does this probably should be banned.

Porygon-Z @ Leftovers
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charge Beam
- Agility
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
Nothing needs to be said about this one.
 
Since Unaware mons will be pretty popular and can stop some sweeps, these Mold Breakers might be able to power through. With Excadrill, choice scarf might be the best item since it has no speed boosting moves.

Excadrill @ Life Orb/Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulldoze
- Swords Dance
- Hone Claws
- Rock Tomb

Haxorus will be able to DDance and Swords Dance all in one turn, and Clefable and Quagsire can't really stop it.

Haxorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulldoze
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
 
Since Unaware mons will be pretty popular and can stop some sweeps, these Mold Breakers might be able to power through. With Excadrill, choice scarf might be the best item since it has no speed boosting moves.

Excadrill @ Life Orb/Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulldoze
- Swords Dance
- Hone Claws
- Rock Tomb

Haxorus will be able to DDance and Swords Dance all in one turn, and Clefable and Quagsire can't really stop it.

Haxorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulldoze
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
>says clefable can't really stop haxorus
>is a dragon type
>against a fairy type
 
I was talking about the above set. It used Dragon Claw +Double Dance + Bulldoze. Sure you may give up SD for Poison Jab but that's not what I was focusing on.
I don't think you need SD when you have DD. Dancing so much will make that guys body ache coverage is always good. Poison Jab also has a Poison chance
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top