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Copyediting Arceus-Ghost [QC 3/3] [GP 0/2]

Discussion in 'Ubers Analyses' started by CKW, May 30, 2017.

  1. CKW

    CKW Because of your smile, you make life more beautiful.
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    [OVERVIEW]

    Arceus-Ghost's great offensive typing, alongside a strong Ghost-type STAB move in Shadow Force, allow Arceus-Ghost to deal massive neutral damage to the majority of the tier. Like any Arceus forme, excellent natural bulk, along with a decent defensive typing allow Arceus-Ghost to block Rapin Spin, check Mega Lucario and Mega Mewtwo X, and act as a soft check to Extreme Killer Arceus. Thanks to Ghostnium Z, Arceus-Ghost has access to a 190 base power STAB Ghost-type move that can be boosted even further with Swords Dance. Arceus-Ghost finds a place in many offensive teams that can fulfill the role of an Extreme Killer Arceus check while also having higher damage output. However, the rise in the usage of Ghost- and Dark-types in most teams like Yveltal, Arceus-Dark, and Choice Scarf Lunala have crippled the viability of this Pokemon, which becomes affected even further due to the lack of strong coverage moves, forcing Arceus-Ghost rely primarily on its STAB Ghost-type attacks to deal damage prior to boosting with Swords Dance.

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Shadow Force
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Extreme Speed / Shadow Claw
    item: Ghostium Z
    ability: Multitype
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    Swords Dance to increase Arceus-Ghost's attack stat and secure OHKOs on Pokemon like Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, as well as Z-Geomancy Xerneas and most support Arceus formes after Stealth Rock damage with +2 Never Ending Nightmare. Shadow Force is its strongest Ghost-type STAB move that is able to 2HKO the majority of the offensive threats unboosted. Brick Break is its best Fighting-type move that allows it to be a soft check to Extreme Killer Arceus while also being able to deal considerable damage to Dark-type like Tyranitar and Arceus-Dark after a boost from Swords Dance. The combination of Ghost- and Fighting-types have no resistances which make Arceus-Ghost a great wallbreaker. Brick Break also breaks Light Screen and Reflect that is used sometimes in offensive teams. Thanks to priority, Extreme Speed lets Arceus-Ghost knockout Deoxys-A and other frail threats that would normally outspeed Arceus-Ghost. It also allows Arceus-Ghost to outspeed low HP Extreme Killer Arceus and low HP Yveltal and KO them. Shadow Claw is an option that gives Arceus-Ghost a secondary STAB option that makes it hard for opponents to play around Shadow Force such as Substitute-users, Normal+Ghost-type cores like Mega Sableye + Chansey, and Toxic + Recover users like support Arceus formes.

    Set Details
    ========

    Maximum investment in Attack allows Arceus-Ghost to hit as hard as possible with its STAB and coverage moves. A Jolly nature along with 252 EVs in Speed lets Arceus-Ghost outspeed everything significant up to Mega Lucario and Speed tieing with other maximum Speed Arceus formes. Ghostium Z turns Shadow Force into a STAB 190 BP Ghost-type nuke for one turn that lets Arceus-Ghost OHKO Mega Salamence at +1 and offensive Yveltal after Stealth Rock damage, all the time and OHKO support Primal Groudon from full, while also OHKOing Zygarde after taking damage from one layer of Spike. Arceus-Ghost can hold a Spooky Plate for consistent damage instead if that is ever preferred over a one-time nuke. Shadow Claw becomes more usable if Spooky Plate is hold over Ghostnium Z, since it increases in Base Power and lets Arceus-Ghost break through the Normal-Ghost combination that usually beats it due to Shadow Force being a 2-turn move.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Switch in Arceus-Ghost on Rapid Spin users like Cloyster and Excadrill to prevent the foe from removing entry hazards. Thanks to Arceus-Ghost's typing, it can either be used as a wallbreaker or as a late-game cleaner since it can exert offensive pressure immediately thanks to Never Ending Nightmare, but can also be reserved as well for sweeping late-game after its checks have been weakened enough. Arceus-Ghost should use its Z-Move cautiously, since it can have great importance to secure OKOs like Primal Groudon, support Arceus formes, and Yveltal at +2 after Stealth Rock damage, as well as Mega Salamence at +1. Shadow Force has only 8 PPs and 1 gets used up when Arceus-Ghost goes for its Z-Move, so be aware and spend them mindfully. It's best to keep Arceus-Ghost's health as high as possible, since it is required to be at full health to OHKO Mega Gengar and Choice Lunala after taking a Shadow Ball or Moongeist Beam respectively.

    Team Options
    ========

    Entry hazard setters like Excadrill, Cloyster, Dialga, Deoxys-S, and Primal Groudon make great teammates as entry hazard damage pushes Pokemon like Yveltal, Zygarde, Primal Groudon, and Lugia into the range of KO from its Z-Move. In exchange, Arceus-Ghost is able to block Rapin Spins which is appreciated by Sticky Web setters like Smeargle and Shuckle. Sticky Web allows Arceus-Ghost to outspeed faster threats like Mega Gengar, Deoxys-A, and Choice Scarf Lunala. Xerneas pairs very well with Arceus-Ghost thanks to its ability to check Dark-types like Yveltal and Arceus-Dark, while also having the option to carry Aromatherapy for curing status. In return, Arceus-Ghost is able to weaken checks to Xerneas like Ferrothorn and Magearna with Shadow Force, allowing Xerneas to sweep late-game. When forgoing Extreme Killer Arceus, most offensive teams usually end up being somewhat weak to Xerneas as, Extreme Speed from Arceus-Ghost is not as strong. This makes Dual Dance Primal Groudon a great partner as it appreciates a check to Lugia and weakening of common threats to it like Mega Salamence, Celesteela, and support Arceus formes. This set of Primal Groudon can also beat offensive variants of Yveltal while a specially offensive version of Primal Groudon can lure out and KO Defensive variants of Yveltal and Mega Salamence. Mega Lucario can check Xerneas with STAB priority Bullet Punch and also appreciates a check to Lugia in Arceus-Ghost and is also a Pokemon that wants the likes of Mega Salamence and Arceus-Ground to be weakened. On the otherhand, Mega Lucario can check Dark-types like Yveltal, Arceus-Dark, and Chople Berry Tyranitar. Deoxys-A can be paired with Arceus-Ghost, since the latter can remove its checks like Steel-types, while also appreciating a Ghost-type being able to absorb an incoming Extreme Speed from Extreme Killer Arceus or Rayquaza. In return, Deoxys-A is able to KO threats such as Mega Gengar, Mega Salamence, support Arceus formes and Zygarde-C, without the need of any boosting move. Rayquaza is also a great partner as it is able to check Primal Groudon and appreciates hazard removers that Arceus-Ghost is often paired with. It can pressure support Arceus formes as well as provide priority in the forme of Extreme Speed which helps out with the Xerneas weakness of such teams. Yveltal and Pursuit-trappers like Tyranitar and Alolan Muk can check Mega Gengar and Lunala that can be a problem for Arceus-Ghost. The latter is by far the best check to Arceus-Ghost, since Moongeist Beam OHKOs after Stealth Rock damage. Teams that usually use Arceus-Ghost as their Arceus forme usually struggle against Choice Scarf Lunala which requires the team's Dark-types to be kept as healthy as possible through the means of predicted switches and appropriate sacks.

    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    A Calm Mind Judgment set makes use of Arceus-Ghost's natural bulk and Special Defense. For the case of other Arceus formes, the Calm Mind set usually has the upper hand when facing Ditto but that doesn't matter at all for Arceus-Ghost's case since the faster Shadow Force loses the fight. Recover can be run over Extreme Speed to increase Arceus-Ghost's longevity if priority is not required as much for the team. However, Arceus-Ghost cannot afford to run a move that cannot pressure its checks. The other option of running Stone Edge over Brick Break lets Arceus-Ghost to OHKO Yveltal at +2 but then Arceus-Ghost misses out on Fight-type coverage, leaving it defenseless against other opposing Dark-types like Tyranitar and Arceus-Dark. The option of using a Z-Move also makes this move somewhat unnecessary. A support set with Defog, Toxic, Judgment, and Recover with maximum HP and Speed is a possible set for Arceus-Ghost to check Mega Lucario, Lugia, and Giratina-O. However, other Arceus formes like Arceus-Water and Arceus-Ground outclass Arceus-Ghost in that role.

    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Lunala**: The Choice Scarf variant of Lunala is able to outspeed and OHKO Arceus-Ghost with Moongeist Beam, after taking damage from Stealth Rocks. Teams that usually consist of Arceus-Ghost struggle against it due to the lack of reliable Ghost switchins since Dark-types like Yveltal can be weakened easily due to Stealth Rock, thus additionally requiring appropriate sacks and predicted switches to play around this Pokemon.

    **Mega Gengar**: Mega Gengar is immune to Extreme Speed and can outspeed and deal heavy damage to Arceus-Ghost with Shadow Ball and at the very least, trade with Destiny Bond,

    **Arceus-Dark**: Arceus-Dark can switch into a predicted Shadow Force from Arceus-Ghost and proceed to 2HKO with Judgment or attempt to setup with Calm Mind. Brick Break is the only coverage option Arceus-Ghost gets that can deal super effective damage to Arceus-Dark and even that is a 3HKO.

    **Yveltal**: While offensive variants of Yveltal may get OHKOed by +2 Never Ending Nightmare, Life Orb-boosted Sucker Punch variants only require a bit of chip damage to OHKO Arceus-Ghost while Choice Scarf variants are able to outspeed or even take a +2 Extreme Speed after Stealth Rock damage and proceed to OHKO it from full with Foul Play. Though very rarely seen, defensive variants of Yveltal are able to take a +2 Never Ending Nightmare after Stealth Rock damage and proceed to OHKO with Foul Play.

    **Other Dark-types**: Chople Berry Tyranitar and Darkrai can check Arceus-Ghost as well. The former can take a +2 Brick Break since it's holding a Chople Berry and OHKO with Foul Play. Darkrai can survive a +2 Extreme Speed even after Stealth Rock damage and proceed to deal heavy damage with Dark Pulse or outright OHKO it with Black Hole Eclipse.

    **Status Conditions**: Support Arceus formes like Arceus-Water, Arceus-Ground, and Arceus-Fairy can cripple Arceus-Ghost with status-inflicting moves such as Toxic and Will-o-wisp. Mega Sableye can cripple it with Will-O-Wisp prior to mega-evolving as well. Zygarde can paralyze it Glare, making it susceptible to slower, hard-hitting threats like Ho-Oh and Primal Kyogre. All these options are able to hinder Arceus-Ghost's attempt to sweep and must be properly dealt with. Clefable is able to survive a Never Ending Nightmare and proceed to Toxic and stall out Arceus-Ghost with Wish.

    **Normal- and Ghost-type Combination**: The method of repeated switching between Ghost- and Normal-types takes advantage of Shadow Force's low PP. However, this method of checking Arceus-Ghost becomes less effective due to entry hazards and a well-timed Never Ending Nightmare or Shadow Claw can stop the attempt.

    **Mega Salamence**: Thanks to its great natural bulk and Intimidate prior to mega-evolving, Mega Salamence can easily take a Shadow Force and attempt to setup on Arceus-Ghost since it has a good chance of OHKOing it with +1 Double Edge. However, a +1 Never Ending Nightmare is able to OHKO Mega Salamence after Stealth Rock damage.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017 at 4:49 PM
  2. Minority

    Minority Numquam Vincar
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Overview

    Darkrai is much less popular, Mega Gengar and Yveltal is roughly the same, and Arceus-Dark, which is way more common now than it was in ORAS, isn't even mentioned. Mega Gengar is only more annoying by virtue of the Mega speed mech change.

    This is true for pretty much every Arceus that isn't Ground. It's not very noteworthy anyway.

    For me the overview fails to mention the most important attributes of this mon, which are that it's a SD Arc op for HO that can check EKiller, and that it can achieve a higher damage output.


    Moves

    I've not used Recover much on SD Arceus-Ghost and in my experience I've never really had many ops to use it. Arc Ghost struggles with 3 attacks as it is. Other QC please give input. For now make the final slash Extreme Speed / Shadow Claw with Recover in moves.

    These two statements are so redundant and don't even say anything worthwhile. Fix.

    List some of the important ones.

    You don't even mention the biggest boon here, which is that S Claw makes it much harder for your opponent to play around Shadow Force.


    Team Options

    How does Arceus-Ghost actually check any of these. True you can break them with Z Ghost at +2, but that doesn't mean you check them. Arceus-Ghost doesn't even bait these things out for Xern.

    Both of these statements are pretty much all fluff. I want to see some hard concrete reasoning behind why these partners are awesome choices in regards to offensive synergy.

    Better, but why isn't this merged with above. Talk about each partner choice one at a time, don't jump around.


    Other Options

    I want to see mention of some sort of a support set here. It's crap for sure, but this is OO.


    Checks and Counters

    +2 252 Atk Arceus-Ghost Never-Ending Nightmare (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 369-435 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    That's a pretty bad check for having its own section listed half way up the list.

    You can add phys def Clefable to status conditions since you tank Z Shadow, Tox, and can recover stall, esp if the Arc doesn't have Shadow Claw.


    Fix all these things and I'll stamp.
  3. CKW

    CKW Because of your smile, you make life more beautiful.
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    Implemented and rewrote major parts of Team Option, explaining the purpose of each partner one by one.
  4. Minority

    Minority Numquam Vincar
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  5. The Trap God

    The Trap God

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    Moves:
    Extreme Speed is used so you can check Jolly Ekiller more reliably as well as avoid being beaten by things such as low hp Sucker Punch Yveltal and Deoxys-A when attempting to sweep more offensive teams; its not used so much for priority as it is really weak. Arceus-Ghost really can't afford to give up Extreme Speed or Shadow Claw for a move that doesn't help with pushing through checks.

    Usage Tips:
    Mention that if you are running Spooky Plate to free up a Z-Move slot, Shadow Claw is a preferred move to break the Normal/Ghost switch loop.

    Team Options:
    Primal Groudon can also take out Yveltal in the offense vs offense matchup where you can force a trade for your unrevealed Arceus-Ghost in the back. You can also use a mixed set to lure potential physically defensive Salamences and Yveltals.

    Its probably best to mention dark types in general and list Pursuit trappers such as Tyranitar and Alolan Muk.

    Webs setters should be mentioned as Arceus-Ghost spin blocks as well as appreciates some of its checks such as Mega-Gengar and Scarf Lunala being slowed down.

    Rayquaza is a good option on these Arceus-Ghost HO teams because you often have spin support, often give up Mega-Salamence for Lucario to deal with Xerneas, and it gives an offensive Primal-Groudon check that can also pressure support Arceus forms as well as other physical walls. It also gives you a decent priority user since you don't have strong priority in the form of Ekiller.

    I'll stamp after edits.
  6. CKW

    CKW Because of your smile, you make life more beautiful.
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    Implemented. I added the Shadow Claw part under set details instead.
  7. Gunner Rohan

    Gunner Rohan

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    You overlapped the same idea here.

    I think you need to rephrase this to exude a clearer idea about why Brick Break is a better slot. In my eyes, the reason to run Brick Break is not because it's the strongest fighting-type move Arceus-Ghost gets, but it's in fact because the combination of Ghost and Fight coverage doesn't have any resistances. Please fix.
    Please mention Ghost + Normal cores. (ex: Sableye Chansey)

    This isn't a main set move, please move to OO.

    Even though you mention Lunala here, you need a far more significant mention of Lunala in Team Options. Arceus-Ghost teams have a severe weakness to Lunala, and even teams with Yveltal can be worn down after rocks. You need to mention how to play around Lunala and how Yveltal needs to be preserved carefully. You also need to mention a back-up check to Lunala since Yveltal usually isn't enough on these teams.

    There are only 3 major ghost types in this tier. Mega Gengar, Lunala and Giratina-O. Giratina-O doesn't check Ghostceus, Mega Gengar and Lunala do. Thus, you need to make individual headers for them both, as they are quite significant answers and almost always force a switch-out, or at least in the case of Gengar, lead to a trade. Lunala deserves a detailed explanation on how it's the best Arceus-Ghost check, since it can OHKO after rocks. It should be mentioned at the top of this list.

    Implement these and tag me.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017 at 3:33 AM
  8. The Trap God

    The Trap God

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  9. CKW

    CKW Because of your smile, you make life more beautiful.
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    Alright, I wrote this up since I got TTG's stamp. Gunner Rohan Implemented the changes.
  10. CKW

    CKW Because of your smile, you make life more beautiful.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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