Resource USUM AG Viability Rankings

Geysers

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I'm sorry, but these calcs are pretty much irrelevant and have no place in discussing why Blaziken isn't viable in AG. Saying that Blaziken can't tank super effective hits doesn't mean anything; we could say Mega Rayquaza is unviable because it gets OHKOed by +1 Zygarde's Outrage. Also, literally none of these calcs are correct. If i'm right, you're using Level 50 Blaziken in these calculations, meaning all of them are invalid. Some of the fixed calcs would be:
4 SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Blaziken: 198-234 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- this actually doesnt even exist so that wouldnt matter regardless
+2 252 Atk Arceus-Bug Savage Spin-Out (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 165-194 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- this calc is completely irrelevant bc 1) arceus-bug is unviable and 2) because earthquake exists

Furthermore, showing us completely us that Blaziken is OHKOed by completely irrelevant Pokemon like Sigilyph, Abomasnow, and Mr. Mime is useless and doesn't show us anything. If you want to explain why Blaziken is unviable in Anything Goes, use relevant (and correct) calcs. Max Defense/Special Defense Blaziken will never exist, so literally all of these calcs, besides the first one, aren't representative of the AG metagame. Your last sentence "Blaziken is beaten by NU pokemon, and clearly deserves no place in AG."... look at this calc.
252+ SpA Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 350-414 (99.7 - 117.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Mega Rayquaza also loses to NU Pokemon. Does this means it's unviable in AG? Not even close. If NU Pokemon aren't going to be used in AG anyway, what's the point of saying Blaziken loses to them? Pretty much all of your calcs are random, and the last one is just crazy. Are you expecting Blaziken to survive a +6 Stored Power from Espeon? I hope not.

Blaziken has a niche with Speed Boost (and sometimes Baton Pass). Saying that Blaziken is unviable in AG because it can't live Life Orb Mega Rayquaza's Dragon Ascent is uninformed and irrelevant, because it's not representative of Blaziken's place in the metagame and what it actually does. It can support some Pokemon with Speed boosts, not do whatever you expect it to do. Personally, I think Blaziken is fine at D rank because it has a niche (albeit a pretty poor one). Please, if you're going to nominate a Pokemon for a specific rank, talk about its effect in the metagame and how it actually functions instead of providing utterly irrelevant and even wrong calcs.
I am so sorry. I did not realize that I was using bad calcs. Please entriely disregard my nomination, as it was made without any thought as to how people would react, and without any thought about Blaziken as a whole. If I am allowed to, I am officially withdrawing my nomination for Blaziken to unranked. Thanks.
 

MZ

And now for something completely different
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Hi! I'm Megazard aka guy who runs the VR updates behind the scenes but makes Chloe do the hard work of posting and moving mons around aka wait i thought he was a PU player. Council had a whole update planned to drop as the last one for the SM meta but then somebody forgot they run this metagame :mad: so I'm gonna just get this out now before it's even more ridiculously late. We voted on everything here plus a bunch of noms that council felt ought to have been brought up because we wanted to get VR in as good of a place as possible going into USUM. And if you read this post within a few hours of it going up those changes might not be in the OP, they will be once Chloe gets on.

Arceus-Water A- to B+
Arceus Flying C to B-
Solrock Unranked to D
Zygarde A to A+
Arceus-Steel B+ to A-
Smeargle B- to B
Tyranitar B- to B
Eevee unranked to D
Arceus-Ground A+ to A
Toxapex C+ to B-
Gothitelle B+ to A-
Lunala B+ to B
Breloom C- to D
Excadrill B to B-
Deoxys-Attack B+ to B
Dragonite Unranked to xD
Marshadow A to A+
Blaziken D to Unranked
Arceus A+ to A/A-
Arceus-Dark B to B+
Celesteela A to A-
Arceus-Grass B- to C+
Arceus-Ghost B+ to B
Mega Sableye B+ to A-
Zekrom C+ to C/C-
Giratina-Origin B- to C+
Muk-Alola C+ to C
Skarmory B+ to B
Arceus-Poison B+ to A-
Marshadow A to B

Now we are aware that the metagame is going to change with USUM, you can begin discussing where you'd like to see Dawn Wings / Dusk Mane / Ultra Necrozma (although i have no clue how we're gonna rank that yet tbh) without needing spoilers but please try to make more informed posts. Quite a few recent ones have been really, really bad, even if the nomination itself went through. Asking if your nomination seems reasonable in the room or discord or getting a friend to proofread it is always an option, although it's not required. Also please dont make posts about role compendium or speed tiers being outdated, we know and we'll get to that but, like with the VR, waiting to see how the metagame develops before making uninformed changes is a good policy.

In other news, we'd like to thank HunterStorm for his time on council, but due to activity issues he is being replaced with Catalystic. Cata also voted on some of the above stuff so yeah, u can send some congratulations his way.

In other other news, council is planning to do... something with the VR. There's clearly some contention on how viable things have to be to get ranked (see: any number of random awful mons that are in lower ranks like Palkia), and this has led to everything below C+ (or higher depending on how high your standards are) being really really bad. We're going to try to work something out there, probably being more strict with what mons we decide to rank, so you can look forward to not having to scroll past Mega Metagross or whatever on your way to the speed tiers.

e: in other other other news, the OM teambuilding shop takes AG requests so that's a thing now
 
Nominating Pheromosa from D to B-
Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Blast


+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 358-423 (88.8 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 180-212 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 154-182 (37 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 203-239 (63.2 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 304-358 (94.7 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega: 243-287 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega: 195-230 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 372-438 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 199-235 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. +2 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 107-127 (26 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Steel: 476-564 (124.9 - 148%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Chople Berry Arceus: 238-282 (62.3 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 238-282 (62.4 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 152 SpD Zygarde: 500-592 (119.9 - 141.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 584-688 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 426-504 (121 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It is a glass cannon worth having on your team. It has done me well, even if it cannot get past the first Pokemon it weakens it greatly, no matter the bulk. It can make the process of beating a good stall team much easier. The focus sash stops its main threat, priority. It's other big threats are Pdon and Ho-oh, but other than that it can take on most other lead Pokemon and add its SPA bonus due to Beast Boost and it just gets better and better from then on out.
 

SaturnZelda

formerly TylerWithNumbers
Nominating Pheromosa from D to B-
Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Blast


+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 358-423 (88.8 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 180-212 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 154-182 (37 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 203-239 (63.2 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 304-358 (94.7 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega: 243-287 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega: 195-230 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 372-438 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 199-235 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. +2 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 107-127 (26 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Steel: 476-564 (124.9 - 148%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Chople Berry Arceus: 238-282 (62.3 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 238-282 (62.4 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 152 SpD Zygarde: 500-592 (119.9 - 141.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 584-688 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 426-504 (121 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It is a glass cannon worth having on your team. It has done me well, even if it cannot get past the first Pokemon it weakens it greatly, no matter the bulk. It can make the process of beating a good stall team much easier. The focus sash stops its main threat, priority. It's other big threats are Pdon and Ho-oh, but other than that it can take on most other lead Pokemon and add its SPA bonus due to Beast Boost and it just gets better and better from then on out.
Firstly, every single one of your calcs has Pheromosa at 0+ SpA, when your set clearly states that you have 252 SpA with a neutral nature. Secondly, you’re assuming that Pheromosa can get to +3, sometimes even +4 when opponents like Groudon and Ho-Oh are on the field. These are not logical calculations, and don’t make any difference whatsoever on the metagame. Also, your description of the set has really bad logic behind it. “Even if it doesn’t KO one Pokémon”, for instance, is a terrible base for nomming a set.
 

Geysers

not round
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Nominating Pheromosa from D to B-
Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Blast


+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 358-423 (88.8 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 180-212 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 154-182 (37 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 203-239 (63.2 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 304-358 (94.7 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega: 243-287 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega: 195-230 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 372-438 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 199-235 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. +2 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 107-127 (26 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Steel: 476-564 (124.9 - 148%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Chople Berry Arceus: 238-282 (62.3 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 238-282 (62.4 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 152 SpD Zygarde: 500-592 (119.9 - 141.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 584-688 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 426-504 (121 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It is a glass cannon worth having on your team. It has done me well, even if it cannot get past the first Pokemon it weakens it greatly, no matter the bulk. It can make the process of beating a good stall team much easier. The focus sash stops its main threat, priority. It's other big threats are Pdon and Ho-oh, but other than that it can take on most other lead Pokemon and add its SPA bonus due to Beast Boost and it just gets better and better from then on out.
In addition to what TylerWithNumbers said, many of your replays are just bad replays. In one battle, I even saw a Sash Zekrom. Who even uses that set? Those replays are in no way an accurate representation of what pheremosa can do. For starters, it gets butchered by virtually any kind of priority, and by hazards. With stealth rock down, almost any pokemon that gets any priority moves will steamroll it. Examples include Marshadow, using shadow sneak, Arceus, with an ekiller set, and Mray with virtually any set that includes espeed. Pheromosa has no place higher than D, due to its incredible weakness to priority, and probably due to some other things that I forgot about.

Edit: To emphasize one of my earlier points, the sash on pheremosa is virtually useless against any half decent opponent who can a.) set rocks, or b.) inflict status, or c.) spam priority. Virtually any good AG team fulfills at least 1 of those criteria, which will allow Pheromosa to get butchered. It may be good for low ladder, but Pheremosa stands no chance vs. many common threats in the metagame.
 
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Nominating Pheromosa from D to B-
Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Blast


+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 358-423 (88.8 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 180-212 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 154-182 (37 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 203-239 (63.2 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 304-358 (94.7 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega: 243-287 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega: 195-230 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 372-438 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 199-235 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO
+3 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. +2 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 107-127 (26 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Steel: 476-564 (124.9 - 148%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Chople Berry Arceus: 238-282 (62.3 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 238-282 (62.4 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 152 SpD Zygarde: 500-592 (119.9 - 141.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 584-688 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 0+ SpA Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 426-504 (121 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It is a glass cannon worth having on your team. It has done me well, even if it cannot get past the first Pokemon it weakens it greatly, no matter the bulk. It can make the process of beating a good stall team much easier. The focus sash stops its main threat, priority. It's other big threats are Pdon and Ho-oh, but other than that it can take on most other lead Pokemon and add its SPA bonus due to Beast Boost and it just gets better and better from then on out.
I faced your team when i was doing CLC laddering and phero was just taken down with ez and did nothing well about replays and calcs everything that you have listed in calculations how phero is getting +2,+1 spa and then 0+ spa it dies to extreme speed users and as bananaben mentioned about hazards it completely ruins its power while pheromosa can be a thing in psy spam but outside of it,its just wastage of slot in team it can be taken care by sash lead or pdon if used as lead and in mid game or end game if rocks are up and opponenet have priority its done.
 

Geysers

not round
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Well, someone needs to break the subject of the new Necrozma forms, so I will.

Necrozma-Dusk Mane -> A
This thing is an absolute beast. It has multiple good sets, including a defensive twave rocksetter. My take on this set packs Morning Sun, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, and Photon Geyser/Sunsteel Strike. Defensive variants can tank 252+ Pblades, then heal up to almost full health with Morning Sun. The All-out attacker set uses UltraNecrozium Z, with max speed. It can sd to +2 atk, then can steamroll through almost everything with powerful attacks. Its main weakness is to scarf yveltal, or just yveltal as a whole.
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 252-297 (63.3 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Crozzy can then recover with Morning Sun)
4 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 336-396 (92 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 192-227 (48.2 - 57%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Ultra X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Dark: 396-466 (89.3 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 433-510 (123.3 - 145.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


The reason I am not nomming Dawn Wings yet is because I lack experience using it, and do not understand its benefits and costs effectively.

Other thing: How is Ultra Necrozma gonna get ranked? Just out of curiosity, of course.

Edit: Sorry did not understand the mechanic with PGeyser, switching between the higher stat in damage calculations, and using Phys or Spec for the actual damage instead of just the stat.

Edit 2: Is Ultra going to be ranked based on the base poke? Or will it be completely separate? I am just raising this question because Ultra Necrozma is potentially one of the wierdest ranking challenges that will be faced in USUM AG.
 
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Well, someone needs to break the subject of the new Necrozma forms, so I will.

Necrozma-Dusk Mane -> A
This thing is an absolute beast. It has multiple good sets, including a defensive twave rocksetter. This set packs Morning Sun, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, and Photon Geyser/Sunsteel Strike. Defensive variants can tank 252+ Pblades, then heal up to almost full health with Morning Sun. The All-out attacker set uses UltraNecrozium Z, with max speed. It can sd to +2 atk, then can steamroll through almost everything with powerful attacks, hitting on both the physical and special sides to take advantage of weaker defense stats.

The reason I am not nomming Dawn Wings yet is because I lack experience using it, and do not understand its benefits and costs effectively.

Other thing: How is Ultra Necrozma gonna get ranked? Just out of curiosity, of course.
I'm not sure why you'd use twave over, say EQ, Toxic, or even stone edge; theres a reason that twave isnt particularly common these days, and the fact that your set is a free pdon switch is just icing on the cake.

Furthermore, Photon Geyser and Light that Burns Through the Sky simply switch between physical and special, rather than hit special defense, so that's not a thing either.
 
why is regular don in the same rank as regular kyogre? kyogre gets scarf water spout with a high special attack and STAB. I don't see what don does at all.
 

Ransei

Garde Mystik
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why is regular don in the same rank as regular kyogre? kyogre gets scarf water spout with a high special attack and STAB. I don't see what don does at all.
Regular don works best as a Primal Groudon check. While regular Kyogre sounds as if it'd do so much more, it really can't because of Primal Groudon's existence. It just uses Desolate Land to block almost all of Kyogre's good moves.

The main use of regular Groudon is to act as a typical wall and it's fairly good at doing so.
 

Geysers

not round
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Suggested addition to role compendium: Necrozma-Dusk Mane added to Stealth Rock. It is pretty solid defensively, and has enough bulk to effectively set rocks while potentially paralyzing or poisoning some of the opponent's pokemon. Add to this its amazing defensive typing, and you have a very solid rocksetter.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-66616336

On another note, I do not understand the nomination of Clefable upwards. I have one answer to this: Offensive Mons. Clefable is easily pulverized by any powerful attackers or special attackers.. (Wink wink Pdon, Mray)
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 363-427 (92.1 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable in Heavy Rain: 412-486 (104.5 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clefable: 419-493 (106.6 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clefable: 354-417 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clefable: 482-570 (122.6 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Other thing: I am interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on whether or not Nagandel and Stakataka should be ranked. I would write up a nomination for Nagandel to D, but I do not have the time right now. I hope that someone else who feels the same way I do will have enough time to write a detailed nomination. I really am unsure as to whether or not stakataka should get ranked, but I am inclined to think D. What do you guys think?
 
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Suggested addition to role compendium: Necrozma-Dusk Mane added to Stealth Rock. It is pretty solid defensively, and has enough bulk to effectively set rocks while potentially paralyzing or poisoning some of the opponent's pokemon. Add to this its amazing defensive typing, and you have a very solid rocksetter.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-66616336

On another note, I do not understand the nomination of Clefable upwards. I have one answer to this: Offensive Mons. Clefable is easily pulverized by any powerful attackers or special attackers.. (Wink wink Pdon, Mray)
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 363-427 (92.1 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable in Heavy Rain: 412-486 (104.5 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clefable: 419-493 (106.6 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clefable: 354-417 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clefable: 482-570 (122.6 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Other thing: I am interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on whether or not Nagandel and Stakataka should be ranked. I would write up a nomination for Nagandel to D, but I do not have the time right now. I hope that someone else who feels the same way I do will have enough time to write a detailed nomination. I really am unsure as to whether or not stakataka should get ranked, but I am inclined to think D. What do you guys think?
Stakataka seems to only work with tr and there is not really any good setters of it and its rock/steel type makes it just completely trashed anyway not even worth D. Now as for Nagandel I would say yes because of its unique typing,speed, spa, beast boost can be helpful and if u somehow manage a cm off it can just destroy teams. But it is hard to set up and is weak to ground so only D rank.
 
Nominating Mimikyu
Unranked -> C+


So Mimikyu is a mon that has gone forgotten in AG, although he can definitely have a niche. His new Z move, Lets Snuggle Forever (that name), makes him actually a threat, combined with a great ability Disguise, and Swords Dance to boost it.

Mimikyu @ Mimikium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw

Focus sash is a weaker choice that doesn't take your Z slot


252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 336-396 (80 - 94.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 367-433 (89.2 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 276-326 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 170-204 (42.1 - 50.6%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 336-396 (75.6 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyogre-Primal: 289-342 (71.5 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyogre-Primal: 108-127 (26.7 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 204-240 (60.8 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 116-138 (34.6 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Some calcs i thought could be relevant. Every chance to OHKO is backed up with priority on shadow sneak as well.



There are quite a few mons that wall this thing miserably, and should be taken care before setting up, such as Celesteela or Groudon-Primal. You should also take care of mold breakers, as they'll ignore your disguise, such as Kyurem-White or Zekrom.


This thing should be used with some strong wallbreakers to go through his weaknesses. Either Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre or Mega Rayquaza pair up great with him.
Also running a strong Stealth Rock setter is recommended in order to give it some important OHKOs.

Yveltal covers most necrozma formes sets, so he also synergizes well with Mimikyu.
 
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Geysers

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Nominating Mimikyu
Unranked -> C+


So Mimikyu is a mon that has gone forgotten in AG, although he can definitely have a niche. His new Z move, Lets Snuggle Forever (that name), makes him actually a threat, combined with a great ability Disguise, and Swords Dance to boost it.

Mimikyu @ Mimikium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw

Focus sash is a weaker choice that doesn't take your Z slot


252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 336-396 (80 - 94.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 367-433 (89.2 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 276-326 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 170-204 (42.1 - 50.6%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 336-396 (75.6 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyogre-Primal: 289-342 (71.5 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyogre-Primal: 108-127 (26.7 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 204-240 (60.8 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 116-138 (34.6 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Some calcs i thought could be relevant. Every chance to OHKO is backed up with priority on shadow sneak as well.



There are quite a few mons that wall this thing miserably, and should be taken care before setting up, such as Celesteela or Groudon-Primal. You should also take care of mold breakers, as they'll ignore your disguise, such as Kyurem-White or Zekrom.


This thing should be used with some strong wallbreakers to go through his weaknesses. Either Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre or Mega Rayquaza pair up great with him.
Also running a strong Stealth Rock setter is recommended in order to give it some important OHKOs.
My first thought on seeing this nomination was "good idea". I proceeded to remember the new Necrozma forms, however. With Pokémon that have access to multiple ability ignoring moves such as Sunsteel Strike, Photon Geyser, and Moongeist beam running around, Mimikyu is totally overwhelmed in the modern ag metagame. Mimikyu is also totally walled by Steelceus, against which it has virtually no opportunitites for super effective hits. In addition, Mimikyu, with its weak attack, is walled by virtually any form of support Arceus, which can soak up a hit from Let's Snuggle Forever, using recover to nullify the damage from Mimikyu. Now, with its Z-Move expended, mimikyu is easily 2HKO'ed by the arceus. If running sash, you become even more vulnerable to supportceus, as it can soak up hits and use recover while just steamrolling right over you with no threat of a Z-Move. Even with a great ability in disguise, Mimikyu gets beaten too easily by too much while dealing too little damage in return.
 
My first thought on seeing this nomination was "good idea". I proceeded to remember the new Necrozma forms, however. With Pokémon that have access to multiple ability ignoring moves such as Sunsteel Strike, Photon Geyser, and Moongeist beam running around, Mimikyu is totally overwhelmed in the modern ag metagame. Mimikyu is also totally walled by Steelceus, against which it has virtually no opportunitites for super effective hits. In addition, Mimikyu, with its weak attack, is walled by virtually any form of support Arceus, which can soak up a hit from Let's Snuggle Forever, using recover to nullify the damage from Mimikyu. Now, with its Z-Move expended, mimikyu is easily 2HKO'ed by the arceus. If running sash, you become even more vulnerable to supportceus, as it can soak up hits and use recover while just steamrolling right over you with no threat of a Z-Move. Even with a great ability in disguise, Mimikyu gets beaten too easily by too much while dealing too little damage in return.

While he is indeed weak to Necrozma forms, walling him as a support arceus form isnt easy, specially with all these darkceus around

+2 252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 336-396 (75.6 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Im editing my OP to add Yveltal on good synergies
 

Geysers

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While he is indeed weak to Necrozma forms, walling him as a support arceus form isnt easy, specially with all these darkceus around

+2 252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 336-396 (75.6 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Im editing my OP to add Yveltal on good synergies
The matchup above could rarely happen. For starters, Mimikyu is outsped by most support ceus forms. Therefore: turn 1: Arceus uses judgment, Mimikyu goes sd. Turn 2: with the disguise broken, arceus ohkoes.
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mimikyu: 207-244 (127.7 - 150.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO. As a result, mimikyu has no opportunity to use its Z-Move before it is ohkoed by and arceus that has literally no SpA investment. Mimikyu is outsped so handily by so much that it has an extremely hard time setting up and then attacking versus virtually any kind of support Arceus. (Even darkceus, which hits neutral vs. Mimikyu, and butchers mimikyu before it uses its z move.)
+2 252+ Atk Mimikyu Let's Snuggle Forever vs. 248 HP / 56+ Def Arceus-Dark: 210-248 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO
Besides, Mimikyu, even at +2, lacks the firepower to do any significant amount of damage to darkceus. The arceus can then recover. Mimikyu is not suitable for AG, and has very little firepower, even at +2.


Edit: ignore the last bit about darkceus. I used a lvl 50 Mimikyu for my calcs. Sorry.
 
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Most supportceus run 280 speed, so mimikyu is faster most times. Also, getting a switch in and SD into the supportceus switch is pretty likely, and leaves you a free turn to z him without even losing disguise.

And yeah, darkceus better run against mimikyu lol
 

Geysers

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Most supportceus run 280 speed, so mimikyu is faster most times. Also, getting a switch in and SD into the supportceus switch is pretty likely, and leaves you a free turn to z him without even losing disguise.

And yeah, darkceus better run against mimikyu lol
In the AG that I have seen, most supportceuses have 372 spe. I know that some run 280, but they are the ones that invest most heavily invested in defense, and therefore have the best chances to survive a hit from Let's Snuggle Forever. Maybe I would support Mimikyu to D, but it is certainly not worthy of C+.
 

Pigeons

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I think that's enough Mimikyu discussion. It's highly unlikely that Mimikyu will get ranked because of how massively outclassed it is by other setup sweepers. In most scenarios, setup sweepers in AG are able to boost on forced switches, something that is easy to accomplish when using powerful offensive Pokemon like Mega Rayquaza or Primal Groudon. Mimikyu on the other hand forces 0 switches due to how weak it is, meaning it's entirely reliant on Disguise to successfully set up. The issue with this is that because it is forced to use Disguise to set up, Mimikyu can't take advantage of the ability to avoid being revenge killed, making its biggest selling point moot. +2 Z-move calcs look nice and all but in reality they assume that Mimikyu will be able to set up and avoid being revenge killed the following turn, which is much easier said than done given how frail Mimikyu is and how little damage it does to neutral targets. The damage Mimikyu can do with z-move at +2 isn't even that impressive compared to other setup sweepers, SD Arceus forms outdamage Mimikyu's z-move while having better bulk and speed tiers while DD Mega Rayquaza doesn't even need a Z-move to greatly exceed Mimikyu's damage output.

I've even tried Mimikyu myself, and the only way it should be used is with Red Card, which actually allows it to take advantage of its ability on hazard stacking HO teams. Even that set is terrible though, so I don't expect Mimikyu will get ranked any time soon.

On a different note we did an overhaul of the VR and ranked the USUM mons so there might be a VR update sometime in the next week with all of that.
 

Chloe

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NUPL Champion
We've revamped the Viability Ranking for the USM metagame, attempting to fix the issues with lower ranks from before and mending the higher ranks with updates since the addition of the new content. This included the unranking of a lot of unpopular or incredibly niche Pokémon: Mega Gyarados, Landorus, Mega Metagross, Palkia, Tentacruel, Aegislash, Amoonguss, Darkrai, Drifblim, Barbaracle, Mega Lopunny, Mega Mawile, Pheromosa, Reshiram, Tapu Koko, Terrakion, Cloyster, Wobbuffet, Shaymin-Sky, Regular Rayquaza, Genesect, Bronzong, Klefki and Kartana. We've additionally reduced the lower portion of the ranking to sole C and D ranks, without subranks for either.

In the higher ranks, the new Pokémon were added, whereas a lot of changes were made reflecting metagame shifts.
Code:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane ranked at A
Necrozma-Ultra ranked at A-
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings ranked at C
Naganadel ranked at C

Marshadow A to A-
Yveltal A to A+
Arceus-Water B+ to B
Arceus-Dark B to B+
Lunala B to B-
Magearna B to B-
Gothitelle A- to B+
Overall, a myriad of changes made to the ranking. Continue to discuss nominations or changes you disagree with below.

May I also add that Mimikyu is trash.
 
why the Gothitelle drop?

EDIT: also, why is Pogre so high? it can't switch in on Pdon or Xern too well and can't always NSI them. It doesn't necessarily beat Ray (dying to Band or +1 Dragon Ascents). It can see it beating Zygod and some supportceus forms but so can Waterceus, and Waterceus has more reliable recovery and utility moves. Plus I don't see why either would stay in unless they've boosted enough that they can OHKO it. Vs stall teams, it can't do much to Ferrothorn or Chansey unless it can Water Spout them from full health. I just don't see what it's supposed to put work in against.
 
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Primal Kyogre is ranked fairly high because it is really good against support/calm mind arceus and defensive pokemons in general. It is better at this role than Arceus-Water because it hits much, much harder due to 180 spa and rain boosting his damage even further. For exemple, it can beat Arceus-Fairy, Arceus-Ground, Arceus-Rock, Defensive Zygarde, Celesteela and such and has little issues switching into them. To get an idea of what I'm talking about: 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Heavy Rain: 324-382 (72.9 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Against stall, it can beat non-confide chansey and non-power whip ferrothorn with substitute (set up a sub and then go to +6/+6), who are usually his only real checks on said teams (if ferrothorn does use that move than it is still very possible to weaken it enough with teamates/hazards to the point where 1-2 origin pulses can kill). Other pokemons used in stall can't really switch safely into it/are forced to whirlwind/roar/d-tail.
It obviously has a lot of problems dealing with Pdon (can't switch in safely into him+he absorbs origin pulse), Mega Ray (life orb ascend is a 1-hit ko vs univested ogre, not to mention he can tank origin pulse) and fast physical attackers who can bully him for his moderate defense, which means he tends to struggle to find room to do much against more offensive teams, but its advantages are enough to put it at A-.
His best set at the moment is probably Origin Pulse/Ice Beam/Calm Mind/Substitute (max spa modest), since it allows him to deal with checks like Mega Ray and Ferrothorn much more easily.
 
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