Gen 3 ADV OU - SuiLax Rain, Peaked #25 >1600

[kd458]

1. The Concept

As a relatively new player in ADV, I wanted to build my own team to ladder with, being someone who enjoys both creating and putting into practice their own builds. Previous attempts at this have gone down in disaster, from Superman teams 6-0d by offensive Gengar to P2 - Dug with no Rock resist. After some laddering around the 1400s, I stumbled upon a strategy often misused - Rain. Although full Rain teams with multiple Swift Swimmers exist and can be good at overwhelming shared checks and breaking through less solid defensive cores, they feel very all-in and hit or miss with little defensive structure and longevity. I wanted to take this playstyle and build a team that not only has Rain sweepers but mons that appreciate weather clear and can enter a drawn-out battle without feeling like a Bo1 ladder gimmick.



I started out by picking a lead with the option of Rain Dance; offensive Zapdos. Kingdra is a pretty clear partner as (in my opinion) the best Swift Swim mon in ADV, also providing some crucial speed to the team when weather is up and a great defensive profile that can eat a hit from pretty much anything unboosted to either set the rain up or simply revenge kill. To lean into the semi-rain style of the build, my next pick was a king of the previous generations - Snorlax feels like an S tier threat when it gets the chip healing suppression of Sandstorm lifted, and even as greedy of a set as Curse + Rest can function as a potent win-con while also providing the team with a great special check. My next pick takes the best from both worlds, as Suicune not only can benefit from having Rain-boosted Surfs, this mon loves having the ability to chip heal and take on threats without being forced to Rest so often. Of course, none of this is even worth considering without being able to prevent Sandstorm from going back up, while Blissey still walls a good chunk of this structure, so Dugtrio was an obvious choice to not only eliminate Tyranitar but also pick off weakened walls like Blissey, defensive Jirachi and even low-HP Milotic. Dugtrio is not a real Rock resist however, and removal is absolutely necessary if this team wants a chance of winning against TSS, so Claydol is an obvious and perhaps even mandatory pick to deal with both Rock Slide and Spikes.

Proof of Peak

Replays

vs offensive Jolt / Skarm TSS
vs Yama Balance

Will add more if I get any more interesting games! Wasn't planning to RMT this until I pretty easily climbed to higher ladder with it and figured it might be worth writing up.

2. The Team

Flyclef Jean (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 48 HP / 208 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rain Dance
- Baton Pass

I find offensive Zapdos to be a great lead in ADV, with positive matchups into a good chunk of leads while Baton Pass allows it to switch out and scout for an opposing switch. Thunderbolt is your primary damaging move, as although Thunder sounds like a good option on Rain Dance, the inaccuracy without Rain up is not appreciated especially in the lead slot where it'll often benefit more from attacking or switching rather than taking two turns to set Rain then attack. Hidden Power Ice gives you great coverage and massively improves this team's matchup into Flygon, who otherwise gets a lot of free turns and feels somewhat hard to break, along with speed tying and threatening out Salamence. Rain Dance supports the team and takes advantage of free turns that Zapdos can generate, with Zap itself enjoying the chip heal from Leftovers. The given spread maximises Speed and invests heavily in SpA to be an offensive threat, while 48 HP EVs allows Zap to live a +1 HP Rock from Adamant Gyarados at full health. A bulkier spread could be considered as a better physical threat, but I find that offensive Zapdos is a better option in the lead slot when using Rain Dance.

Water Whippin (Kingdra) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Rain Dance

Kingdra is the best Rain mon in the tier and can threaten most key targets with super effective coverage, leveraging this plus its good natural bulk to force switches and get opportunities to set up a Rain Dance. Surf is the preferred Rain-boosted Water coverage, with Hydro Pump as a stronger but less consistent alternative, and Ice Beam gives coverage to super effectively hit Flying, Grass and Dragon types. Hidden Power Grass is a necessity here to directly threaten Swampert along with other bulky waters as Zapdos is running HP Ice, and Leftovers is the item of choice due to taking better advantage of Sand clear on a less offensive Rain team like this. This set uses a standard sample spread, with enough speed to outrun Jolly Tyranitar while maximising SpA with a Modest nature. Very few mons can safely switch into this Kingdra particularly with Rain up, while a full health Kingdra is very hard to OHKO and can act as a backup check as a bulky water with almost no relevant weaknesses into a lot of the tier.

Laxiano Boomaldo (Snorlax) @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 116 Atk / 180 Def / 212 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Shadow Ball
- Rest
- Curse

Without Sand up to prevent it from chip healing with its Leftovers, Snorlax feels like an S tier threat in ADV. Of course, Tyranitar is too much of a presence in the meta to have this as a consistent win-con in most teams, especially with Body Slam - Shadow Ball coverage completely walled by it; however, this team is built around removing Sand and removing TTar, and so this greedy Rest - Curse set can function effectively here. Body Slam is the STAB option of choice as it allows Lax to spread paralysis, particularly useful for easing the matchup into Skarmory and making it less a consistent answer more susceptible to being chipped down, while Shadow Ball allows this to be a pretty consistent Gengar switch-in. Although this set does have Rest for longevity, Immunity is still the selected ability so that Skarmory cannot force you to Rest, while Curse allows this to clean a game as well as setting up alongside and beating DD threats like Gyarados and Salamence. 116 Attack EVs and an Adamant nature lets this OHKO 4 HP Dugtrio with Body Slam, with enough Defense to avoid the Brick Break 2HKO from Adamant Salamence and the rest invested in SpDef to better take on special attackers.

Goobatron (Suicune) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Want a mon that benefits from manual rain in two ways? Suicune is a perfect fit, as not only is Surf boosted by Rain, Leftovers recovery makes Suicune even more of a monster, with Seismic Toss going from a 5HKO to a 6HKO. Calm Mind is a necessity, making this mon a powerful late-game win-con, while Rest allows it to come in multiple over the course of the game in a secondary defensive role for the team. Sleep Talk is a good option on this set that helps to prevent mons from taking advantage it while asleep, as it'll often be forced in and have to Rest at least once per game and limiting the passivity of this is good for a mid-game Suicune. A more defensive spread with Ice Beam over Sleep Talk can also be considered to help this check Salamence better, but I personally like this sample offensive Modest Suicune set for its aforementioned ability to mid-game better. Paired with Snorlax, this rounds out a scary late-game for the opponent which can be customised depending on the matchup, shared checks allowing for one mon to come in first to bait Explosion / Self-Destruct from key targets and weaken phasers so that the other can clean up more effectively.

R.O.C. (Dugtrio) @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 112 HP / 248 Atk / 40 SpD / 108 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Aerial Ace
- Rock Slide / Beat Up

Dugtrio is a pretty clear addition to this team, with multiple roles that give it value in almost every matchup. Choice Band Earthquake is your main tool to eliminate Tyranitar and prevent it from resetting Sandstorm, while also being able to trap a chipped Blissey. Hidden Power Bug allows Dugtrio to trap and KO Celebi for the benefit of both Suicune and Snorlax, while Aerial Ace can revenge kill Breloom and Heracross that come in to deal with Lax. Rock Slide is a good option that lets this be an emergency check to weakened Zapdos, choice-locked Aero and non-DD Salamence, while Beat Up is a great choice that can be used to handle Blissey more effectively so long as the team is kept healthy and not statused as even the special attackers on this team have a solid Attack stat. A very bulky spread is chosen here for the ability to tank Modest Blissey's Ice Beam while also living assorted hits like Jolly Tyranitar's Earthquake and even standard utility Celebi's HP Grass. This EV spread does sacrifice Dug's ability to trap Raikou and Starmie, but running additional speed for these mons is not worthwhile compared to the additional bulk here.

Treacherous Spins (Claydol) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Atk / 32 SpA / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Psychic
- Refresh

For a team that not only lacks removal but also a solid Rock resist, Claydol is a perfect addition, using a standard sample set to get a guaranteed 2HKO on up to max HP Tyranitar while also being able to deal with Gengar using Psychic. Rapid Spin is a necessity to support this team and prevent your sweepers from getting chipped too heavily by Spikes, while Refresh feels absolutely necessary after testing on ladder; without Refresh, this team really struggles with Skarmory being able to set multiple layers of Spikes and force out Claydol, whereas RefreshDol is able to sit on Skarm indefinitely and can freely remove any time Skarm provides it with an entry point. The lack of Explosion does hurt on a more offensive team that lacks consistent Salamence and Gyarados answers, but a much better MU into TSS cannot be ignored.

3. Team Use

Leads

This team's lead of Zapdos is pretty self-explanatory as one of the best leads in the metagame, but here are some reasonable plays to make into opposing leads. Some have been omitted such as Suicune and Vaporeon, as these are very straightforward or not hard to pick up.

I typically BP out on this to scout for a switch, but you don't really wanna risk being Thunder Waved in case of a speed tie and so going hard into Claydol is usually a safe play here.

Lead TTar can be a variety of things, but Claydol typically can be Baton Passed into on lead TTar while Suicune is also a good switch-in that cannot be two-shot by any move other than Band Tar.

This is why we run HP Ice Zapdos as Mence can be a big threat for this team, though you do have an 18.8% roll to drop to a Banded Jolly Rock Slide. This is rare though and I'll always take the free HP Ice here.

You do massive damage to Skarm and they should never protect to scout due to the threat of Agility or BP into Magneton, though taking a Toxic on Zap can be risky into offense. BP to scout the switch and always be able to switch safely out into Dol if they opt to stay in is good.

Lead Meta can only kill you with Explosion or Banded Rock Slide, you are relatively safe to click Tbolt and if they boom that's one less boom for Suicune / Snorlax. BP into Suicune or even Kingdra is a safer play.

Jolteon is somewhat problematic for Zapdos, as you really don't want to take a Thunder Wave. Claydol is pretty good to hard switch into here as it blocks both TWave and Tbolt, while Snorlax is always a free switch on Jolt.

Midgame

Q: What do I play for?
A: Depending on the opposing structure, you should identify which of your wincons is the more potent during an endgame and aim to preserve its ability to clean; for example, Gyarados deals with Suicune well while unable to stop CurseLax, while a team with a defensive Wish Jirachi may be more open to Suicune breaking through. Often, both Suicune and Snorlax will be viable win conditions and so either can be exhausted as checks and ways to weaken key targets for the other.
Q: How much do I need Rain?
A: Rain is often not a top priority to reveal or utilise and you will not be clearing weather off lead due to TTar's matchup into Zapdos, so preserving weather can be fine especially into teams where you may want it for surprise factor with a lategame Kingdra.
Q: How do I approach Spikes?
A: Keeping off Spikes to help your big two act better as defensive checks is essential, and RefreshDol does this easily against Skarm. HP Bug Forre is a tougher matchup but can be pressured into booming by Curse Lax, and other more niche Spikes setters tend to have a shorter lifespan and so are less of an issue.
Q: My opponent has a threatening mon, how do I handle this?
A: Some big threats like CB Aerodactyl, Substitute Charizard and DD Gyara can be tough to deal with, the latter two in particular benefitting greatly from your own weather clear, so saving some of your big defensive pieces to trade with threats like this is generally a good idea.

Lategame

Suicune is a potent lategame wincon and can often sweep through weakened teams as the last mon, with some structures overly reliant on Sand + Spikes to prevent it from snowballing out of control. Preserve enough HP on Suicune to get the opportunity to set up and play it safe-ish with Rests to avoid getting hax'd by crits or Paralysis but remember that you are able to heal back up in matchups where you can find enough breathing room, it's sometimes good to take out a Zapdos or Jolteon early on in exchange for a large chunk of health if you can get a chance to Rest it off and sweep later.

Snorlax plays similarly to Suicune with its ability to set up and Rest, but is also forced in a little more often as this team's main special check. Skarmory and Steel-types in general will hard wall this Snorlax and so fishing for Body Slam Paralysis can aid greatly in making progress against them, reducing their consistency as answers to a Curse-boosted Lax and allowing this to sweep vs Skarm teams even if it's not the last mon standing. Be sure to Rest when given a chance as you will also sometimes be needed as a status absorber when switching into Gengar, and you don't want to attempt a sweep while burnt.

Although most teams will have solid answers into this, sometimes if a team is chipped sufficiently and special walls like Blissey and Milotic removed or weakened by Dugtrio / Suicune you can send in Kingdra and get the Rain up in either order and clean house. This is particularly useful into offense lacking real defensive answers to Rain and even if Kingdra doesn't sweep immediately they usually end up weakened to the point of folding to one of your other sweepers or a second Rain Dance. Just preserve some health on your Kingdra and look for opportunities to get a free turn to set Rain into teams looking weak to this.

4. Threats

DD HP Rock : This is a monster that gets free setup opportunities on Claydol, Kingdra, Dugtrio and Suicune, and although Zap is EV'd to live a +1 Adamant HP Rock from full it's not a safe play after any amount of chip. CurseLax can 1v1 this from an even playing field and so is a good backup check if Zap is chipped, while HP Flying variants lose to Zapdos.
DD : DD Mence is another massive threat that gets free setup opportunities on this team, and unless you run Ice Beam Suicune there is no safe answer after a DD particularly if they're using the rarer Brick Break variant. Zap does outspeed and OHKO before they DD and CurseLax can 1v1 non-Brick Break, Kingdra also lives even a boosted hit and can OHKO back, be sure to keep these healthy to answer it.
: CB Aero is disgusting into a team with no Normal resist, Claydol walls Edgequake but gets 2HKOd by Double Edge. Snorlax and Suicune do both dodge the 2HKO from any move although Lax cannot switch in even at full since you don't do enough back, while Kingdra can tank any one hit to revenge kill it.
Bulky CM : Jirachi can be pretty hard to break through for this team, with Wish variants able to wall Snorlax while Calm Mind is hard to stop once it gets going and gets harder to revenge. Claydol can chip it through its boosts though and wear it down to the point of Dug being able to kill it from ~75% and below.
Curse: Opposing CurseLax can be terrifying without the Sand being up and often it's a valid option to go to war with it with your own Snorlax or sacrifice a mon to get enough chip that Dugtrio can revenge it, this will usually trade 1 for 1 into you. Kingdra and Suicune can pressure this by forcing it to come in as a special check but be prepared to lose a mon.

5. Final Note

Thanks so much for reading and I hope you enjoy the team! Any feedback or constructive criticism would be appreciated as I am more of a new gen player with some experience in DPP Draft, I enjoyed learning more about this tier and have had fun building, testing and finding success on the ladder with my own creations. This feels like a pretty optimal and consistent way to use the otherwise somewhat gimmicky playstyle that is Rain and I'm glad that I've been able to make it work, I'll likely spend some time on ladder testing and optimising this further but I'm pretty happy with how this turned out and the numbers it's been putting up so far.

As always, shoutout myself for making the team and coming up with these beautiful nicknames, I'm always open to comments, questions or whatever both here and on Discord at KyleJD.

 

[1LDK]

bro wheres the zama + rilla + heatran ho core?????? bro are you okay??????????????? please talk to me its been 5 yeaars since you left home pls come back111!1!111!1!!11!!!!1!!11

 

[kd458]

ho core

ay I’m a bulky offense main at heart (ignore that I’ve only been using balance since DLC2 dropped in SV lmao)

 

[giraffefromholland]

What I Love About the Team
Neat 6. I have some concerns with this particular set up that I do not think are solved by swapping one or two slots or changing sets, but I would like to start by mentioning all of the things I love about this team. Each of the Pokemon on this team are annoyed by Celebi to some extent, so by stacking sets that are strong enough to trade Celebi out individually and partnering multiple serious endgame threats with Dugtrio, you've created a healthy overlapping offense that will almost definitely break through most Celebi teams, with a few provisions. I love the use of Ice Zap for this reason, and I might even recommend Toxic in place of Baton Pass -- as Dugtrio is the only consistent beneficiary of BP here, and Toxic also pressures Blissey and Celebi to make Zap itself more threatening. Suicune without Ice Beam really struggles to deal with Salamence or Celebi, which are significant issues when you rely on it as a primary source of offense or as a main check to Salamence. Pairing it with Kingdra and Zapdos to check Mence for it frees it up to be more selfish with its coverage, which is a brilliant synergy. Once Celebi and Blissey are out of the equation you'll find that offensive waters are usually too much for most teams to handle, and one of the finer points of CroCune is its ability to manage non-CM Blissey without good anti-Cune support. The offensive concept here is particularly robust with only one or two conceptual weaknesses that I think potentially limit this version of the team.

Offensive Limitations
Continuing from my mention of the potential offensive weaknesses, there is the matter of securing the KO on Blissey. Unless you manage to trap Blissey with Dugtrio, you will experience some difficulty in a number of critical match-ups with getting the job done against Bliss and friends. One example of a core that might give you trouble is Recover Celebi+Blissey. ABR built a number of teams in the past two or so years that were very popular in tour or on ladder that can block the Dug trap with Celebi as the first Zap check, or even Pert, once Zap is revealed to be Ice and unable to pressure Pert, which often carries Refresh or Rest on those teams, managing Toxic effectively. The only way to consistently break through Blissey's friends to get the favorable 1v1 of CroCune vs (non-CM) Blissey is to use physical attackers. Snorlax, unfortunately, it hard-walled by Skarmory, and Spikes are a pain. Rest Snorlax is also a passive Pokemon for this team -- Curse+Selfdestruct or Fire Blast might help break through popular stall teams with Skarmory or boom to help Dug trap Tyranitar for Rain Dance to work its magic. You might also benefit from a second physical tool to beat down Skarm supported by Blissey, like a mixed Metagross or a DD Grass Tar (which also has its limitations). This will allow Snorlax to remain a serious threat to sweep against passive Blissey teams without phys Tar, even when dropping Rest. Additionally, Claydol is not substantive defensively. It does not have Explosion to finish the job vs Aero or to trade out Tar to Dug trap it, so it will not hold up vs Skarmory offenses that abuse Claydol's limitations -- therefore, you are short on tools to break the Pokemon around Blissey, and your game plan hinges on guaranteeing the Blissey trap. In other words, while you have a dominant match-up against many Celebi (as the primary special wall) or non-Bliss teams, you have limited coverage vs Blissey stall, which caps the ceiling on an otherwise brilliant offensive concept. I would not call this offensive game plan a fish, since offense is very viable, and non-Bliss teams outnumber Bliss teams, but there are some players who will use Bliss better than half of the time or more, and many of them are using those very teams I mentioned were difficult here.

Defensive Limitations
On the subject of the defensive limitations of the team, one of my main concerns here is an Aerodactyl and a Zapdos weakness. The Zapdos weakness is manageable, provided Skarmory is not paired with Zapdos. Snorlax can only switch into Zap (under sand, potentially with Spikes down) so many times without making progress vs Skarmory. Since Claydol can fall to Aero (who comes in on Dug, Resting Lax) or potentially DD or Suit Tar, which gets free set up on Lax and even potentially on Zap, Skarmory can get layers, especially with Drill Peck to wear down Dol. These can be solved with a simple set change. Curse Boom, Focus Punch, or Fire Blast on Lax patch the Skarm issue. They all have their problems, not least that they become worse at dealing with Zapdos once you've invested EVs in too many stats -- Lax infamously struggles to be both relevant defensively and offensively in one spread -- or traded it by booming Skarm. Not having a Double-Edge switch-in and giving free entry to Aero, especially once Refresh has been revealed on Claydol. DD Tar can be annoying if it can break through either of your waters or get the 1v1 vs Claydol for an Aero behind, or if it is supported by a Metagross trading out one of the waters before it sets up, and it gets free entry vs Zap and Lax.

You mention Gyarados, DD Mence, and bulky CM Jirachi being problematic. I think fitting EQ (or Fire Blast) and boom on Lax is good enough to help with those. Maybe they chip Lax down or have a switch-in, late game, but provided you position well, you can handle most of those teams, and I don't think they are necessarily the most prominent teams (in tour or on high ladder, as you get better).

The Band-Aid Fix
My quick solution is to use Mix Meta in place of Claydol. The dex spread should be fine, or give it speed for Skarmory. You give yourself a proper rock resist that can hit back vs Aero and switch into CB Mence, you add a Snorlax check, you can pressure Skarmory before revealing Snorlax (supporting Lax offensively AND defensively), and it can mitigate the need for Rapid Spin support by KOing Skarm quickly enough. You still struggle to switch into Zapdos, so I advise Tbolting or statusing lead Zap in the mirror match-up. Most off Zap will be at lead, so you patch a helpful number of match-ups. Those teams with Zap in the back can be more passive and therefore are more susceptible to explosions, Dugtrio, and a well-planned special overload, as they have limited counterplay beyond soaking up the damage, or they are frailer and are susceptible to your special spam in either case. Mix Jirachi could function similarly, with more power and coverage on the special side and speed, at the cost of the Lax check and the explosion. Interesting options.

Alternatively, you could try Curse offensive (or Endeavor?) Pert over Claydol. This doesn't really patch the Double-Edge weakness, but the mon 1v1s Blissey and benefits from the Celebi overload while also offering more overlapping defense, so . It also doesn't fix the Lax problem, but with Rain Dance boosted Pumps and Dug, you should be having a lot of fun with a more hyper offensive concept. It's not so stable, but it's promising at least.

Make Lax offensive -- mix or phys -- and give Zapdos Toxic, probably in place of BP.



Good luck revamping your team! I think you're right that the 6 is pretty close to optimal, especially since the offensive game plan is robust, and there's nothing gimmicky about that. There are a lot of different directions you can take this in, even if you choose to keep the same 6 and just eyeball or cheat on the bad mu's, and I think you can be very successful with this style. Hope you continue to enjoy ADV!

 

[kd458]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply and suggestions, I appreciate you taking the time to do this! I'm a big fan of this kind of overload structure that aims to pressure defensive pieces with multiple threats and wanted to build a more solid team that can maintain longevity while doing so, I'm glad I could bring this to a tier I'm less familiar with. I do think that yeah this six is near optimal for what it aims to do, but there are definitely some key issues particularly with lategame CB Aero after Suicune has taken chip and some larger changes to not only the movesets but the mons might be needed to address this.

In other words, while you have a dominant match-up against many Celebi (as the primary special wall) or non-Bliss teams, you have limited coverage vs Blissey stall, which caps the ceiling on an otherwise brilliant offensive concept.

Good call, I've mostly been coasting off the fact that ladder doesn't tend to make it particularly hard to get off the Blissey trap but this is a great point since if Blissey is not removed by Dug it's very difficult to force actual progress against solid stall teams. This is definitely something of an issue with the concept in general and it's not easy to patch up immediately without making some major changes, since I feel like switching anything significant out weakens other matchups. Rest-less Snorlax, for example, makes my Gengar MU far worse, while BoomDol cannot remove safely vs Skarm any more, but a bigger restructure of the team could potentially fix this.

You mention Gyarados, DD Mence, and bulky CM Jirachi being problematic. I think fitting EQ (or Fire Blast) and boom on Lax is good enough to help with those. Maybe they chip Lax down or have a switch-in, late game, but provided you position well, you can handle most of those teams, and I don't think they are necessarily the most prominent teams (in tour or on high ladder, as you get better).

EQ or Punch Lax makes a lot of sense and honestly a utility Lax here could just be better in general, but I do think that yeah these threats are pretty manageable, they all need free setup turns and my counterplay so far has just been playing well to not give them that (which I've found pretty effective). Aero is definitely a huge issue here though and so is opposing Lax, I like the idea of Punch Lax tbh and will probably give this a try though I do agree that this would make special attackers harder in general since yeah I'm trying to force it to fill too many roles at once here.

My quick solution is to use Mix Meta in place of Claydol.

I appreciate the suggestions! I worry about being too Spikes weak particularly with mixed Rachi not really pressuring Skarm as heavily, but I really like the idea of mixed Meta over Claydol as a Rock / Normal resist and a breaker into Skarmory here while also giving me an Explosion to use to panic check pretty much everything I've listed as a threat. Curse Pert is also a pretty solid choice that I might give a try, though yeah it does take the team in a more HO-oriented direction that I'm not sure if I like the typical lower consistency of.

I'll also try out some different Lax sets and will definitely make the Zapdos Toxic, you raised some great points here and I can see how this fits really well on an offensive spread to force the Natural Cure walls out and get opportunities to not only get off damage but set up Rain Dance, whereas BP is pretty useless for anything aside from scouting a switch as an offensive Zap. Great insights and thank you for the in-depth reply, this metagame has been very fun in general and I'm looking forward to playing more ADV!