I'm sure Bloodmoon would love to run a 5th move. Most pokemon would love a 5th move slot. Bloodmoon doesn't particularly need that 5th moveslot to be competitively insane.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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Finchinator thank you for admitting the tier is in disarray, has been betrayed (and even quite possibly bamboozled)
Now that my prayers have been answered, I can look towards the future. A good gen 9 OU. Maybe this won't be Unova remix in terms of power creep. Maybe....
Now that my prayers have been answered, I can look towards the future. A good gen 9 OU. Maybe this won't be Unova remix in terms of power creep. Maybe....
4MSS means you can't fit all the moves you need to function, and is a major flaw for some mons.
It doesn't mean you can't fit coverage for every possible switch in. BM Ursa doesn't have 4MSS, it has a very flexible 4th move.
It doesn't mean you can't fit coverage for every possible switch in. BM Ursa doesn't have 4MSS, it has a very flexible 4th move.
This is such a headass post LOL, my guy taking a victory lap for negativity???
the tier is in disarray because we are barely 3 weeks since a major release, this has nothing to do with the past metagames, which have been pretty good and rated as such. Once the suspect is over, we will be in a much more reasonable place.
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
What move is BB that RMoon runs?The best set is DD / Acro / Knock / EQ or BB. You can use Taunt over EQ or BB if you want to dodge Toxic from Gliscor and a few other things, but it’s not needed at all. Think you’re nitpicking at best here.
Also, describing Bloodmoon as “leaving it wanting for more” is
Brick Break. Let’s you OHKO Gambit and still hit Tran hard, especially since it’s oftentimes paired with Grassy Terrain, while having a practical secondary effect.
I know this is a moonman idea but is it an option to make a full restart of all Gen 9 tiering at this point? I believe the issues we're having are due to us not being clear on whether we're going to tier to form a super offensively oriented metagame or if we want to quickban intensely, and Idk about the stability of the rest of the tiers but their #1 in usage seems to change practically every month which cannot be good. Point in this being that Kingambit, BM, RM, Manaphy, Wellspring, Gliscor... are maybe a bit too much for THIS OU, but a balanced tier of 30 something mons could form around them and guys like Annihilape, Espathra, Volc... if the mindset we had is offense superiority for this gen
Should note, Roaring Moon had Scale Shot even before DLC (and was in fact the only mon able to learn it before the TM) in SV, it just didn't run it very often. I presume because it didn't value Dragon Coverage enough, has legitimate concerns with the DEF drop priority weakness, usually prioritizes Booster Energy (so Loaded Dice is a bigger ask), and doesn't have a worthwhile ATK boost or need of such a combo vs Dragon Dance (Chomp runs it in absence and Ubers Koraidon picks it as an upgrade over Flame Charge on its SD sets as well) on its boosting sets.
I can sympathize with the guy. It can be validating to know what you're experiencing is broken when a lot of people on smogon forums/ou chats will be saying stuff like BM isnt broken or hazards/HO isn't an issue right now. Its nice to know that people think whats going on is a problem and the answer from the community wont be just purely sitting back and saying "just play more aggressively bro"
DLC2 will essentially do this
does this actually work in preventing a pass or do you just shoot yourself in the foot because you just gave my mon a boost AND it's not confusedFlatter is like Swagger but for opponent's Spa, I guess it would create some legal shenanigans
Edit: For some reason I forgot Swagger isn't banned anymore
This is literally the same feeling I have about Shadow Tag/ Arena Trap. Months and pages of time every meta are wasted debating something that should be permanently banned.
Also, I know that unbanning things sounds appealing, but I think the re-suspect process is a waste of time. How many times was Cinderace re/suspected last gen? Three? I'm still annoyed about the Zama-C test last gen (i think that was at the height of telesight shenanigans, but my memory is a bit fuzzy). Not only does it re-introduce tension and debate about pivotal mons that were previously banned, but it also chews up time where actual suspect testing can be done on problematic mons. I think this is also sadly true about re-suspecting existing things. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result. Kingambit wasn't banned, deserves to be banned, and won't get banned (you can quote me on this for the inevitable re-suspect).
I think that after a suspect test fails, the only people who can decide on further action would be the council. I know that creates tension on who has a say here and whatnot, but... realistically, I think they are overall a good representation of the community.
So as much as I want to watch Kingumby leave forever and ever, I think that there should be something like a ballot proposed by the council on their next tiering survey regarding mons that they should consider removing from the tier.
Similarly, letting things like Darkrai, Genesect, Volcarona, and others run free at this time should only be done by council vote.
Tl;dr I think re-suspects waste time when other elements of the game could be suspected. EDIT: Extra thanks to Finch for being transparent, level-headed, and answering people's questions from the perspective of a council member. We love to see it!
you say this, but i have my doubts. dlc1 wasn't a "restart" at all (fortunately). in fact, nothing dropped from ubers, including the mon that people were screaming and crying about being sent to ubers. unless they drop a host of super-powerful mons all at once like crown tundra did—which likely won't happen considering that they dropped a bunch in home already—why would we arbitrarily undo all the progress we've made?
now, if tera were to be banned, that i could see effectively being a full reset on tiering
Comparing DLC1 and DLC2 isn’t fair. The former is a pit-stop in our journey while the latter is the start of the legacy metagame SV will be remembered as. There’s no DLC2 or Home2 planned as far as I know, so this signals DLC2 as a major point of resetting.
I will actively file a complaint towards the OU metagame because of its teetering enjoyment -- even though I'm aware the meta will be solved in the coming year. And in 2025, hell. Nothing is happening until we get gen 10
I am a living contradiction
I am a living contradiction
fair enough, but i still think that dropping a bunch of stuff like last gen will hurt things more than helping them. dropping that many things at once was a massive blow to gen 8's already tarnished legacy. it turned what could have been maybe a month's worth of cleanup into something like four months and a lot of people were checked out at that point
Roaring Moon being potentially broken makes sense. I always saw this Pokemon as Mega Salamence-lite stat wise and assumed it would be one of the first QBs (which ended up not being the case).
That being said, currently I feel it and other booster energy Pokemon are only so good because the metagame is so offensive. I feel once Ursaluna is banned (if it is banned) and balanced playstyles become better, that Pokemon like Roaring Moon, Iron Moth, and Iron Valiant will become less effective than they are currently. I attribute the "problematic" elements of these Pokemon to booster energy moreso than the Pokemon themselves as well, as Booster Energy + Boosting moves make it a bit too easy for these Pokemon to Snowball.
That being said, currently I feel it and other booster energy Pokemon are only so good because the metagame is so offensive. I feel once Ursaluna is banned (if it is banned) and balanced playstyles become better, that Pokemon like Roaring Moon, Iron Moth, and Iron Valiant will become less effective than they are currently. I attribute the "problematic" elements of these Pokemon to booster energy moreso than the Pokemon themselves as well, as Booster Energy + Boosting moves make it a bit too easy for these Pokemon to Snowball.
Besides BE I think the balance shift will also help in the case of RM simply because Balanced teams can more easily afford to run things that prevent progress even with Knock Off again, while dealing with a (comparatively) easier to stomach offensive output.
Really, if it weren't for it being its only ability, I imagine we would've just banned Good As Gold by now.
We would never ban an ability that only one Pokemon has
While we are all trying to get Bloodmoon banned, how about using Corviknight for the being? I know you all think that Bloodmoon would underspeed roost and KO it with Earth Power, but what if it didn't?
@ Lagging Tail
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Defog
I would like to know what people think about this set though.
@ Lagging Tail Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Defog
I would like to know what people think about this set though.
Having used Corv during my failed attempt to qualify for the vote, I can confirm this really isn't practical. Blood Moon still shreds its HP even with the resist, and Corv simply isn't the kind of mon which can overcome the healing Moonlight brings or stop it from boosting with Calm Mind.While we are all trying to get Bloodmoon banned, how about using Corviknight for the being? I know you all think that Bloodmoon would underspeed roost and KO it with Earth Power, but what if it didn't?
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Defog
I would like to know what people think about this set though.
The issue is that Corv does not exert any pressure onto bloodmoon so blood moon can just Tera and Calm Mind to +6 / +6 and take out 3-4 other members of ur team. If Corv had haze or roar it would be a different story but it doesn'tWhile we are all trying to get Bloodmoon banned, how about using Corviknight for the being? I know you all think that Bloodmoon would underspeed roost and KO it with Earth Power, but what if it didn't?
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Defog
I would like to know what people think about this set though.
As Eeveeto shared earlier, he is using a Roost, Brave Bird, U-Turn, and Light Screen Corviknight set paired with Ogerpon-Wellspring to take on Ursaluna-Bloodmoon. Corviknight cannot take on Ursaluna-Bloodmoon and can only provide support to your team to do that. That shows what a ridiculous mon it is that you have to resort to using Light Screen to handle it.
While we are all trying to get Bloodmoon banned, how about using Corviknight for the being? I know you all think that Bloodmoon would underspeed roost and KO it with Earth Power, but what if it didn't?
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Defog
I would like to know what people think about this set though.
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Light Screen
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
This is some tech I've seen floating around. Assuming that the Bloodmoon's only attacks are Blood Moon and Earth Power, you can beat it 1v1 if you never roost. If they start spamming CM you can start spamming ID and threaten to kill them.
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