Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[Highscorezero]

Zygarde is banned! No more glare! No more glare!!!

I think these two bans will really open up set diversity. Exciting stuff for sure. Someone above said that Koko and Regi will get better but I don’t really agree, a ground type will still be mandatory for building either way so it’s not like regi will be getting dramatically better.

one step closer to a less centralized meta game

 

[Monky25]

Just woke up to this GREAT news, and I know I’m a little late but....
OU council bans zygarde and kyurem-black
Everyone:

 

[Spyro]

So I expect Zygarde 10% CB to rise in usage now but It's bulk is horrendous though but thanks to Teleport Zygarde 10% is a lot better than in past gens since it now has a way to get in safely. I need to make a team with Zydog. Dual Screens support could potentially work too as a way to make Zydog just as bulky as it's brother so it could still run the Sub Coil set and all the other sets like it's brother. What do you guys think?

 

[MidnightReaper]

I'm also really interested to try and make Zydog work, Thousand Arrows really is an incredible move and the ability for it to ignore so many usual Ground type switch-ins cannot be overstated. I'm not sure if going with Sub Coil would be the best option, it might be better as a late game cleaner with Ddance and Screens support. This is all theorymon though as it still needs to be tested as a suitable replacement option for Zyggy in OU.

Oh yeah, and now that Zyggy and Kyu-B are banned #freeshielddoggo #freeZamaC

 

[KamenOH]

With the removal of some of Toxapex's greatest threats, I personally feel as though it has grown too large for its britches. There are other offensive threats that do deal super effective damage, but they haven't the offensive stats of Zygarde and Kyurem Black to really threaten it.
Furthermore, Regenerator provides sustainable healing so long as you have another pokemon to switch to, making any pokemon incapable of dealing reliable 33%+ damage a non-threat, until you factor in the fact that its main set uses recover, healing it even further. Toxic and scald, depending on what you are facing, provide chip damage to whatever opponent you face, and Haze neutralizes any attempts to set up. Lest you forgo Toxic for Knock Off, you now have a way of preventing banded/spec'd pokemon from keeping that monumental 1.5x boost, and deny other pokemon Leftovers or Black Sludge. The latter of those you yourself use to keep the health high in the sky.
It is also a major defensive check/counter to a wide swathe of the meta, such as Urshifu-S and Volcarona, prominent offense-oriented pokemon, as well as most physical pokemon without a SE move, which is rare due to the only weaknesses of Toxapex being Electric and Psychic.
Granted, it does have counterplay in Tapu Koko and Regieleki, but simply having a ground type on your team to support Toxapex, which kazam1228 notes as,

...a ground type will still be almost mandatory for building...

makes those top Electric threats almost a non-issue.
Psychic types like Latias and Alakazam present little issue, because switching to a special wall like Chansey or Clefable act as checks sufficient enough to enable high-end switching, and recover all the damage dealt because of Regenerator, or even have the opponent make a slip, exposing them further.
There is little counterplay that cannot be negated, and because of its defensive nature Toxapex avoids the standard model for banning, which, while admittedly may be misremembered, goes along the lines of "broken offense is more noticeable and apparent". It is my personal belief that banning Toxapex will allow for a better metagame.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

We may see the same trend from gen 7, zygarde gets banned, CB zygarde 10% takes its place as a frailer, faster, and "weaker" due to running jolly over adamant because of its lackluster bulk. I feel like zyg 10% may just find a niche as a C-B- pokemon because its niche is nice but its usable on teams that can support it well with dealing with slowbro, grass types, and faster threats like dragapult. But its frailty is holding it back.



252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 109-130 (30.9 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 124-147 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Scale Shot (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Tangrowth: 126-153 (31.1 - 37.8%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mandibuzz: 138-163 (32.6 - 38.5%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO

in these calcs it shows it has some walls, that can switch in consistently and just wall it. Then its frailty is a problem 54/71/84 isnt bad, but its nothing impressive and is still 2hko by most neutral attacks, and ohko by pretty much any super effective attack. Also it is forced out by most things like a knock from many mons, losing its band is crucial so it doesnt just do pathetic damage.

 

[Highscorezero]

We may see the same trend from gen 7, zygarde gets banned, CB zygarde 10% takes its place as a frailer, faster, and "weaker" due to running jolly over adamant because of its lackluster bulk. I feel like zyg 10% may just find a niche as a C-B- pokemon because its niche is nice but its usable on teams that can support it well with dealing with slowbro, grass types, and faster threats like dragapult. But its frailty is holding it back.



252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 109-130 (30.9 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 124-147 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Scale Shot (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Tangrowth: 126-153 (31.1 - 37.8%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mandibuzz: 138-163 (32.6 - 38.5%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO

the issue is scald is a 2HKO after rocks and can burn, Tang can knock you off and foul play does 61 to. 89% so in those situations I think you should just switch imo

 

[SeveroM]

For rain teams:
Not a big problem:
Big problem:

I think rain will have a loss. As a rain player, I think was not that big deal agaisnt rain, defensive could always take a hit and flip on which threaten kyurem with close combat, under rain it still outspeed at +2. However as always the fall of Kyurem B means a rise on , which means freeze dry screwing rain. I saw this happen in past and I think it will happen again.

 

[Negative Charge]

one of my favorite cores right now - Kyurem

+ Suicune

Suicune

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Protect

Kyurem

Kyurem @ Metronome
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Icicle Spear
- Substitute
- Roost

These two are individually very potent at breaking down BO/stall/rain teams, together it's amped up to 11. They have pretty decent synergy, with Suicune abusing the fire and steel types (Heatran) that don't mind Kyurem's set. Suicune's scald burns help both of them maintain subs against things with supereffective hits and is nice for hex dragapult and spectrier. They can eat up ungodly amounts of PP together. I run these two with a heal bell clefable so I can risk some burns/toxic for key hits.

 

[kstiemsma]

I had a sort of post that I didn't finish right before the DLC so wanted to give my thoughts on stuff in the metagame. (RIP Zarude good paragraph)


I think Psychic Terrain is a good offensive playstyle right now. The priority blocking is really good when a lot of teams run Urshifu as their Dark type. Lele is usually better but I've experimented with Indeedee as an extra Ghost immunity which is nice. Blacephalon can be a bit hit or miss but the coverage granted by Fire/Psychic/Ghost is awesome and virtually unwallable besides Blissey and Heatran. Both of these can be beaten in 1v1 situations if you're able to pressure with some prior chip, Lele Psyshock and Focus Blast can help chip these into Blaceph range.


SpDef Flygon is legit good on some bulkier teams especially that need long term hazard removal and it is able to keep itself healthy while checking heatran and regieleki over the course of a game. Has a bit of 4MSS bc you want all of EQ/roost/defog/u-turn/toxic (or second coverage move) but reliable healing is so nice. On mid-high ladder, I've seen a ton of people spamming the spdef landorus set and I think it is lando's best set right now. So hard to deal with and provides a crucial check to Tran, Regi, and Koko while providing utility and being difficult to switch into as Toxic nails all the usual Lando switch ins besides Corvi. Lando is also unable to check top physical attackers like Pherosma, Urshifu, and Rillaboom so this is the best way to play into its strengths.


I'm surprised to see so many people don't like this mon right now. HDB and Specs are both viable. I do think that Regieleki is bad but Koko is able to take advantage of the Ground types forced by Regieleki such as Garchomp, Lando-T, and Swampert offensively with its coverage of Electric, Fairy, and Grass Knot for Pert. Bulky specially defensive steels like Magearna, Heatran, and AV Melmetal wall it, but they all have unreliable recovery and Koko can easily pivot out of them with proper team support. I think it is very under-explored right now and hope more people will mess around with it.


These two are my favorite mons in the meta right now and Mel's ability to provide glue on many teams reminds me a lot of Lando's versatility from last gen. Use Ice Beam on AV it's not a meme. I think Phero will evolve to be the next suspected element but I will be happy spamming it until that day comes, such a fun mon to use. In spite of liking it so much I still think Melmetal is balanced (though I can understand if people think it's overbearing).

 

[AM]

one of my favorite cores right now - Kyurem

+ Suicune

Suicune

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Protect

Kyurem

Kyurem @ Metronome
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Icicle Spear
- Substitute
- Roost

These two are individually very potent at breaking down BO/stall/rain teams, together it's amped up to 11. They have pretty decent synergy, with Suicune abusing the fire and steel types (Heatran) that don't mind Kyurem's set. Suicune's scald burns help both of them maintain subs against things with supereffective hits and is nice for hex dragapult and spectrier. They can eat up ungodly amounts of PP together. I run these two with a heal bell clefable so I can risk some burns/toxic for key hits.

Cool to see someone using Suicune as well. I like Ice Beam on the protect slot so that its not fodder for Dragapult, Rillaboom, and Lati twins. Funny these also makes good partners for various reasons, like Dragas hex set from scald burns, grassy surge supplementing health, Lati for the resists.

 

[Negative Charge]

I'd also like to start the train that Magearna is broken and at a bare minimum unhealthy. At the end of the day, every time you face one, it's a roll of the dice if it happens to have the set that 6-0s your team. I understand that there are other uncounterable mons at team preview but this is really the last mon (other than QD Phero) that makes me ragequit in the tier. Pick whatever you want and it can do it well (my favorite is shuca for setting up regieleki sweeps) The most disgusting are Draining Kiss bulky sets. I don't think there's a meaningful difference in the meta compared to pre Crown Tundra, hitting focus blasts on Heatran and Melmetal isn't a very heavy lift. It's a staple of almost every archetype that isn't hard stall. I'd like to just see some defenses of what it does to the tier and teambuilding.

 

[KamenOH]

I do think that Regieleki is bad...

I just want to say, I dont exactly think this is a bad pokemon.
252 SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 516-608 (169.7 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 399-471 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
once the ground types are removed, Regieleki breaks through one of the more common defensive cores with guaranteed OHKOs, but this might've been already known.

 

[shadowpea]

Time for an actual post!

Obstagoon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Switcheroo​

Obstagoon honestly has a lot going for it. For starters, it has access to STAB Guts Facade, which is unique to it. And oh boy, is it powerful. Lets see... Facade is a 70 BP normal-type move. However, when burned, it reaches 140 BP. And there is the ability Guts. Let’s understand what the ability is for a moment: Obstagoon gets a Choice Band boost while being able to switch moves if it is statused. Guts allows it to reach an effective 210 BP. And we didn't even get to STAB yet... If you're too lazy to do the math, it means Obstagoon has a 315 BP move, and the only other common moves that exceed that are (*checks notes*) Regieleki's Rising Voltage in Electric Terrain, Choice Specs Regidrago’s Dragon Energy at full HP, LO/CB Dracozolt’s Bolt Beak when it goes first, and CB Victini's V-Create. To show how powerful this is, PhysDef Toxapex manages to get itself 2HKOed from full (assuming no Black Sludge), and standard Buzzwole have a 98% chance to get 2HKOed after its Leftovers are knocked off after rocks. (Assume Adamant for all these calcs)

Yeah, Obstagoon is insanely strong, and unlike the other aforementioned insanely strong Pokemon, its only drawback is that it has to take 6% every turn, but that’s even less than Life Orb damage. Also, Obstagoon has perfect 3 move coverage, with Knock Off taking care of Ghost-types (and being great utility in general) and Close Combat dispatching Rock- and Steel-types. It also set itself apart from its main competition, Conkeldurr and Urshifu. It is much faster than Conkeldurr and does not have to be locked into a band like Urshifu. Furthermore, as Urshifu has perfect 3 move coverage, it has an additional moveslot to do what it wants to do. It can use Switcheroo to take advantage of the fact that it doesn’t need the Flame Orb after it gets burned and no one else wants to get burned, so you can easily face a burnt Obstagoon with something like Lefties, Boots, or even a Choice Band. Taunt can shut down passive mons like Toxapex, and Bulk Up says “hmm, I don’t think Obstagoon is just powerful enough”. It also has options like Gunk Shot, Obstruct, the elemental punches, and very very niche options like X-Scissor, Seed Bomb, and Stomping Tantrum. Not bad! And for an offensive Pokemon, it actually has good bulk, and its speed isn’t bad either. To top it off, Obstagoon has a pseudo-immunity to status!

Needless to say, cleaners appreciate Obstagoon punching holes with nuclear-powered attacks and knocking off certain items. As a wallbreaker, Obstagoon is mostly self-sufficient, but it does appreciate speed control, as it only has average speed and likes to run Adamant. Hazards are also great for extremely obvious reasons. Pokemon that dislikes stall also likes Obstagoon, as it typically eats stall for lunch. Finally, Obstagoon doesn’t 2HKO some Pokemon that resists Facade and can take CC or Knock Off like Magearna and Skarmory, so support against those guys are nice as well. Of course, Obstagoon has flaws (there’s a reason it’s RU), but they are not stopping it from being an amazing wallbreaker.

Switcheroo is so fun

Assume Obstagoon is burnt already, which it often is

Go, Obstagoon!
The opponent sent out Blissey!

Next Turn

The opponent withdrew Blissey!
The opponent sent out Garchomp!

Obstagoon used Switcheroo!
Obstagoon obtained one Choice Scarf!
The opposing Garchomp obtained one Flame Orb!

The opposing Garchomp was burned!

Next Turn

The opponent withdrew Garchomp!
The opponent sent out Slowbro!

Obstagoon used Switcheroo!
Obstagoon obtained one Heavy-Duty Boots!
The opposing Slowbro obtained one Choice Scarf!

Soo... you think I might shut up now. This is when I usually shut up. But, no, not today! You have to continue listen to me ranting about random stuff! Hahahahaha!

Ok, time to rant about rain

: The de facto leader of rain, because it has Drizzle. Not much to see here. I will say, though, that Pelipper is actually pretty useful. It can Defog, generate momentum, and fire off semi-powerful Hurricanes. However it can’t hold HDB because it wants a damp rock so it's best to pair it with another defogger.

: So this thing managed to rise to OU and we can see why. 123 Atk and 136 Spe is nuts especially with Swift Swim. It also gets good coverage in Crunch, Psychic Fangs, and Close Combat (why does a fish with no arms get Close Combat?). It also gets Flip Turn. This thing is insane in rain with a band and also good even out of rain just because it's so fast. Adamant is definitely viable due to it not needing Jolly at all. On the other hand this thing gets paper thin bulk so it can’t tank any kind of hit. Good rain staple overall.

: Fell out in favor a bit but LO and Specs are both still pretty good. It’s generally a nice rain mon that can hit fast and hard, and no one wants to eat Specs Hydro Pumps from this thing in the rain.

: Good rocker, pivot, blah blah blah. It does Swampert things and honestly the only buff it gets from the rain is that its Flip Turn has more power but whatever. We should know what Pert does when we’re this far in the meta.

: It does Ferrothorn things and generally is annoying as hell. Personally if I had to ban one mon from the metagame, selfishly, with extreme prejudice, it would be this guy. It likes rain mons eating fire attacks and can eat grass and electric attacks aimed at rain mons.

: Belly Drum Huge Power Aqua Jet in rain. I need to say no more

: A good defensive and offensive mon in rain. Access to both Thunder and Hurricane in rain is pretty good, and although most of you probably forgot about it due to Zapdos playing defense for the past few years, it still has that base 125 SpA. For the first time since BW it can flex its muscles and blast things to bits. It loves the rain. And remember how Peli appreciates another defogger? Say hello to Zapdos.

: This is super fast and has Hurricane in the rain, as well as moves like Knock Off and U-Turn. Also Regenerator+Roost is honestly pretty good. It can pivot or just play an attacker role, though we often appreciate it supporting due to offense being largely taken care of by stuff like Azumarill.

: Choice Specs Thunder in Electric Terrain and rain. Tapu Koko really needed that power bump for its special electric moves after Electric Terrain got nerfed, and Thunder helps it out a bunch. Now this thing hits like a truck, can pivot, and can easily take out dragons that are looking to absorb water attacks.

: Often overshadowed by Darkshifu, Watershifu is at its best in the rain. Surging Strikes in rain hit really hard, as does Aqua Jet, and it has Close Combat to blow stuff away. Pretty good against sand as no one there appreciates Close Combat or Surging Strikes. A nice wallbreaker for rain that opens the way for something like Barraskewda to sweep later.

I obviously missed something because rain is very versatile but I think this covered most of it. Also someone already mentioned that no Kyurem-B means that Kyurem can come out of the corner and screw rain over with Freeze-Dry. But I’m sure they can adapt.

Until next time!

 

[Perish Song]

I just want to say, I dont exactly think this is a bad pokemon.
252 SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 516-608 (169.7 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 399-471 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
once the ground types are removed, Regieleki breaks through one of the more common defensive cores with guaranteed OHKOs, but this might've been already known.

This is honestly the case with running Regieleki. Nobody can deny the power of this thing when it uses Electric Type attacks, but every viable team will have an Electric immunity in it. It has no viable ways of hitting to Ground-types, so if your opponent plays their Ground-type Pokemon well your Regieleki is almost always deadweight, and you either give momentum to your opponent by allowing their Ground-type in or forced to do a double switch to try keeping momentum in your hand, which might not be beneficial to chip your Regieleki for no reasons if your opponent has any sort of hazard in your field. There are some strategies involving Screech + Explosion that people talk about. While this might be a good idea to remove Ground-types, this also removes Regieleki so I don't understand the purpose of that. Still, Regieleki will maintain its niche as a screen setter lead for HO with its ridiculous Speed almost always guaranteeing it dual screens and its access to Explosion being useful to not drain too much of momentum.

 

[Monky25]

I'd also like to start the train that Magearna is broken and at a bare minimum unhealthy. At the end of the day, every time you face one, it's a roll of the dice if it happens to have the set that 6-0s your team. I understand that there are other uncounterable mons at team preview but this is really the last mon (other than QD Phero) that makes me ragequit in the tier. Pick whatever you want and it can do it well (my favorite is shuca for setting up regieleki sweeps) The most disgusting are Draining Kiss bulky sets. I don't think there's a meaningful difference in the meta compared to pre Crown Tundra, hitting focus blasts on Heatran and Melmetal isn't a very heavy lift. It's a staple of almost every archetype that isn't hard stall. I'd like to just see some defenses of what it does to the tier and teambuilding.

Not to be rude but we JUST banned zygarde and kyurem-black. I think we should give time for the metagame to develop before claiming anything is broken or unhealthy, especially considering how those 2 warped the metagame. It’s reasonable to say it can Be problematic in the future but to say it’s broken right out the gate is a hard stretch for me

 

[musiquepkmn]

Also, in the past, people have been running 0- speed Blissey to always get slower teleports that opposing blissey. However, you may want to rethink this, as if Blissey runs 0- speed it makes Regieleki's Electro Ball 150 bp versus 120bp, meaning with Specs it can 2HKO Blissey with Electro Ball without Electric Terrain.

 

[shadowpea]

Also, in the past, people have been running 0- speed Blissey to always get slower teleports that opposing blissey. However, you may want to rethink this, as if Blissey runs 0- speed it makes Regieleki's Electro Ball 150 bp versus 120bp, meaning with Specs it can 2HKO Blissey with Electro Ball without Electric Terrain.

Orrrr you can use Lagging Tail Blissey as a meme (I went on your wall lol).

 

[Hobie]

: This is super fast and has Hurricane in the rain, as well as moves like Knock Off and U-Turn. Also Regenerator+Roost is honestly pretty good. It can pivot or just play an attacker role, though we often appreciate it supporting due to offense being largely taken care of by stuff like Azumarill.

I agree with almost everything you said about rain, but this Torn post leaves off two things. First you didn't mention that its arguably the best defogger on rain which is fair I get you wanted to keep the sections short. More importantly however Torn doesn't get Roost which seriously hurts its walling potential and is why its best set imo is HDB Defog pivot. Without roost it just can't stand up to constant attacks without switching out, pretty much the opposite of a tanks job.

 

[shadowpea]

I agree with almost everything you said about rain, but this Torn post leaves off two things. First you didn't mention that its arguably the best defogger on rain which is fair I get you wanted to keep the sections short. More importantly however Torn doesn't get Roost which seriously hurts its walling potential and is why its best set imo is HDB Defog pivot. Without roost it just can't stand up to constant attacks without switching out, pretty much the opposite of a tanks job.

Well I forgot that it didn't get roost and I just wasn't thinking too much when I wrote that part. It's a giant bird. I suppose it doesn't get roost because Tornadus-I isn't a big bird? Yeah, agreeing with what you said, HDB fixes most of this thing's problems with SR so it can abuse Regenerator to the fullest. Also I didn't say "walling", I said "support", because Torn won't be walling much with its 79/80/90 bulk lol. But offensive support is a thing and imo Torn is really good at that which is what I said.

 

[Hobie]

Well I forgot that it didn't get roost and I just wasn't thinking too much when I wrote that part. It's a giant bird. I suppose it doesn't get roost because Tornadus-I isn't a big bird? Yeah, agreeing with what you said, HDB fixes most of this thing's problems with SR so it can abuse Regenerator to the fullest. Also I didn't say "walling", I said "support", because Torn won't be walling much with its 79/80/90 bulk lol. But offensive support is a thing and imo Torn is really good at that which is what I said.

I just wanted to remove the idea from anyones head that Torn is a good wall because in a lot of peoples minds Regen + Reliable Recovery is associated with mons like Pex. Its best set is absolutely support though I agree completely.

 

[Ast0rga]

Cell Battery - Raises holder's Attack by 1 if hit by an Electric-type attack. Single use.

Bad items have always been around. But now that we have Mr. guaranteed Electric move , would there be any at least gimmick application for this?

 

[BolTingBlazie]

I am most surprised that kommo-o dropped to uu though, considering that people said it would still be a good option in the ou meta right now, completely walling certain threats like blaziken, rillaboom (Unless its got acrobatics), and urshifu can also be walled by it, kommo-o also can drive out hazard removers and hazard setters like corviknight, mandibuzz, and toxapex, while setting hazards itself, not to mention all the crap it can pull with a clangorous soul boost.

 

[bb skarm]

Torn-T's longevity as an offensive pivot is pretty remarkable. HDB+U-Turn+Regen is such a good combo for balanced and bulkier teams, especially if it can form a regencore with something like Slowbro. Torn-T as a mon in general is just doing everything right now. It has so much utility in U-turn, Knock Off, Defog etc. it's really an ultimate team player. Now that it doesn't have to worry about Kyu-B getting in its face and basically deciding the game it'll be easier to pivot in and out without having to worry about that.

But, just in a general sense - I think Torn-T is just pretty good regardless of Kyu-B being around or not. What it's doing right now is really unique and you're fitting so much utility into one slot. Honestly, if you're making a balance or bulky offense team, you really should always consider it as a mon to add, because you're getting an offensive pivot, a Knock Off user, momentum grabber, hazard remover, and just generally decently strong mon all in one slot.

View attachment 292498

Cell Battery - Raises holder's Attack by 1 if hit by an Electric-type attack. Single use.

Bad items have always been around. But now that we have Mr. guaranteed Electric move , would there be any at least gimmick application for this?

Honestly, running this on like Lati@s sounds kind of fun.

edit: Oops, just realized it said attack, not special attack. Don't really know if it would work on any mon but like maybe Rillaboom then, which takes a sizable amount from Regieleki regardless. Maybe EQ Latios?

 

[Schpoonman]

View attachment 292498

Cell Battery - Raises holder's Attack by 1 if hit by an Electric-type attack. Single use.

Bad items have always been around. But now that we have Mr. guaranteed Electric move , would there be any at least gimmick application for this?

Unless it still works on an immune hit, I think I'd rather boost, use a Life Orb, or a Band. Eleki 2HKOs most resists, so I'm not confident on anything's ability to switch in, eat a hit, and then still reliably use the boost from Cell battery, including a probable second hit from Eleki.