Hi everyone! I'm glad to see such a fruitful discussion. I'm going to try to hit on the relevant topics of this discussion (from here and PS!), sum them up, and build off of them with some questions.
To begin with, we've identified why trapping moves see limited usage:
a) Moves like Spider Web, Block, and Mean Look, can be Taunted and don't deal any damage
b) Moves like Whirlpool and Infestation suffer low base power and imperfect accuracy, but at least they deal chip damage for a guarenteed 4 turns
c) Moves like Anchor Shot and Spirit Shackle really suffer from low distribution, and Necturna simply doesn't have the movepool to sacrifice its Sketch move on them
d) Ingrain just isn't worth running because the recovery isn't worth it, phazing moves are rare, and it generally isn't worth the moveslot
For these reasons, the viable trapping moves we should consider building with CAP23 are binding moves and Anchor Shot / Spirit Shackle. Notably, Fairy Lock didn't get much discussion, but more on that later.
Next, we've found some difference between trapping moves and trapping abilities:
a) Trapping moves seem generally inferior to trapping abilities, as it takes a turn for them to take effect, which means that the opponent can swap to a check or counter
b) However, this leaves the ability slot open to a very potent ability that can work well with trapping effects
c) Additionally, this makes the opponent wonder whether or not CAP23 is even running the trap move, and it can be pulled out at any moment
We also identified some of the strengths and weaknesses of trapping moves:
a) As previously stated, it takes at least a turn to begin the trap
b) However, this promotes creative play between opponents, depending on if the opposing Pokemon wants to stay in and try to damage CAP23, only to be trapped, or if the opposing Pokemon wants to switch
c) Trap moves can guarantee safety for certain strategies: for examples Z-Moves hit their intended target, and double switches are prevented
d) It's hard to rely on trap moves' chip damage as a main strategy due to how slow it racks up. More on this in the next section
e) Binding moves' effects can be lifted with Rapid Spin, and opponents can lift it with phazing moves (Roar and Dragon Tail) or pivoting moves (U-turn, Volt Switch, Parting Shot)
Finally, whether they are effective, annoying, or not, we identified some strategies with some of these moves. My new questions will mostly spawn from here.
a) Toxic + Binding move got lots of discussion about how chip damage can rack up quickly over a few turns
b) Soak got some discussion on how it removes STAB from opponents, but it seems very gimmicky.
c) Perish Song can KO almost any opponent if the trapper can stall out for enough turns
d) Z-Moves work very well to hit their intended targets, as well as potential coverage moves
e) Taunt can shut down slower walls
f) Hazard stacking (Spikes and Toxic Spikes) can be useful against trapped opponents who can't KO back
g) Other status moves can be useful to cripple trapped Pokemon
h) Pivoting moves can grant teammates extremely safe switch-in opportunities
i) Knock Off removes Shed Shell, an annoying item for a trapping concept
j) Boosting moves can be used against slower walls as well
If I forgot anything on this list, please don't post here "you forgot X snake!" That only clutters the thread. PM me or catch me on PS! instead if you feel like something needs to be here or clarified.
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To complete the first part of Concept Assessment, I'd like to bring up Fairy Lock again. No one's really analyzed its potential uses at all, and I'd like to see if CAP23 could use it in any capacity.
Next, I'd like to comment on Toxic + Binding Move. This combination of moves has revealed itself to be a controversial topic. On one hand, the chip damage between Toxic and a binding move can rack up fast over a few turns. My concerns over such a strategy are actually finding those turns to get there, and building a Pokemon specifically tailored to that kind of strategy. For example, we sacrifice lots of moveslots actually to achieve such a strategy. CAP23 would use three moveslots to pull off such a strategy: Toxic, a binding move, and presumably a recovery move. That leaves one slot open for any sort of creativity. This strategy would also mandate quite a bulky Pokemon. Additionally, many balancing issues would surface with this mon: specifically surrounding the recovery move. If it's reliable, the this Pokemon could potentially stall almost anything, assuming this Pokemon is bulky enough to pull of this strategy, it could wall an entire team if played with correctly. On the other hand, if it has no reliable recovery, it risks getting KOed before it can complete the Toxic Trap kill. While it's not impossible to make such a mon and end up with a balanced Pokemon, this area is very small, and we risk making a Pokemon that either fails to trap anything or is so bulky and sustainable that it traps way too many threats. In short, it seems like this strategy while good on paper, a) is very hard to build, b) is hard to use in practice given that it needs so many free turns, and c) offers little creativity when it goes to set design.
Also, I'm going to have to end discussion on Soak here. While it certainly can be in CAP23's movepool, using Soak as one of CAP23's main attacks is frankly just a gimmick. If we go a defensive stall set with it, we suffer the same problems as you do with Toxic + Binding Move, as it uses the same strategy, but it's less effective because now you don't even have that open moveslot for an attacking move. An offensive Soak set misses the point of trapping moves entirely: trapping moves ease prediction, but then Soak wastes another turn to ease prediction once more, which is redundant. We can focus on coverage later on, and we shouldn't have to worry about Soak governing the Typing Discussion and our entire threatlist.
Heatran has been brought up multiple times during this discussion as an example of a good trapper, and Magma Storm's high base power has a huge positive for its niche as a trapper, as well as its access to powerful coverage moves. This leads me to Anchor Shot and Spirit Shackle, which have been shown to be two of the best trapping moves so far, as they have reliable base power as well. While binding moves are an option to use to trap opponents like Spirit Shackle and Anchor Shot, these two moves in particular lend themselves to have more diverse movesets.
We've also started discussing which sort of Pokemon we'd like to trap; however, I would like to hold off on this and first would like to focus on which trapping moves we want to use. To be fully transparent, my goal with Concept Assessment is to figure out which trapping strategy should be the "defining strategy" of the concept and then figure out generally what Pokemon we want to trap based on role. Let's look at these new questions. Question 5 should be an easier question to answer, but Question 6 is extremely important moving forward, so take some time when answering it.
Questions:
5. To make sure we have our bases covered, is Fairy Lock a move we want to explore in any capacity? Is it viable at all? Why or why not?
6. Should we focus more on the binding move + residual damage / stall strategy for CAP23? Or, should we focus on the offensive strategy using primarily Anchor Shot and Spirit Shackle as well as binding moves alongside Z-moves, pivot moves, etc.? Why is one better than the other?
Regarding Question 6, keep in mind that when we pick one strategy, it's hard to accommodate the other strategy on the same CAP, as they run counter-intuitively to one another.